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View Full Version : What Do We Really Know About Jon Jones?



Harry Evans
02-07-2011, 03:35 PM
First of all, I believe Jon Jones to have more potential than probably any other prospect in MMA. He might even beat Shogun. That being said, am I the only one that still sees him as that - a prospect? Here's a few reasons why I think the hype train, though it may be right, is way too far in overdrive.

Dire Straights: I think this matters a lot, especially in regards to odds making. We have never seen Jones injured, in bad position, or down points. Fighters learn a lot about themselves and what works when they lose, and especially when they get cracked. Many top prospects have gone the way of the dodo after eating a few hard shots and realizing they can't take it. Maybe Jones can brutalize Shogun, but he will likely eat some power shots before he does. Who knows if he can shake off 15 of Rua's leg kicks and a few flurries. If he can, we have a new P4P contender. But until then, I don't see how this guy can be going off at as much as -210/+170! I'm hoping to make a ton off of this fight.

Fight length: Jones has not reached the 3rd round in over 2 years. He looks like he can go for 10 hours, but we won't know until we see it.

Experience: Jones has 13 fights, 7 in anything approaching a serious organization. Shogun has 23 fights, 18 in PRIDE or UFC. He has seen in that time way more different styles, body types, speeds, etc., and he should be able to compensate based on past obstacles.

Opposition: Jones has looked amazing in every fight, but against who? How do you think Shogun, or any top-5 fighter at LHW, would look against this list of Jones' entire UFC career? Gusmao, Bonnar, O'Brien, Hamill, Vera, Matushenko, Bader. The fact is, Bader is the only top-10 he has ever faced, and was most definitely not yet top-5. How can we know whether he is really amazing, or just amazing at making 2nd-tier fighters look terrible? Tito did the same thing for a long time...until he fought Liddell. Marquardt seems to obliterate 2nd tier fighters, but fails more often than not against the top tier. On the other hand, Shogun has faced nothing but top opponents since April of 2005, and he has faced 14 people since then. Not to mention he won the PRIDE Grand Prix, which is insane.

I've been writing MMA articles for a bit, don't know why I have not posted them on here. What do you all think, is this worth a write-up?

Karim Graham
02-07-2011, 03:48 PM
well i hate reading big posts, but you kept me reading till the very end, so go for it man.
you make a ton of good points, finishing fights all the time is nothing compared t the experience and wisdom gained from fighting 15 minute wars against geniuine proffesionals. i backed jones against bader and was excited when i saw he was given the title shot. but i dont think hes ready for it yet, maybe 3-4 fights with some top guys and he would be in a perfect position for it. i think if he did beat shogun he could lose it just as quick, everyone would want a piece of jones.

James Davis
02-07-2011, 03:53 PM
I think it's worth a write up. I've been starting to write mma articles and covering local events....then found out that it is very hard to actually enjoy a fight that you are covering.

As far as Jones: All of your points are valid. Although, I am not sure who else there is for him to fight. You have rampage, machida, rashad and rua in the elite class. Machida is fighting randy couture, can't remember who rampage is fighting. Basically, you have those 4 fighters, then Bones Jones. The only way he can be considered elite is if he beats one of the four.

Eric Perez
02-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Rampage is fighting thiago silva where he will also get destroyed like jones will

bobby rivers
02-07-2011, 05:14 PM
One thing you know is you never know.

Jack LaBarge
02-07-2011, 05:51 PM
This will be a easy fight for Jones. Please watch Shogun's fight with Mark Coleman (ufc fight) After knee surgery or watch his Forrest Griffin fight after his knee surgery. Shogun will not be 100%!!! Sorry your not getting the odds you want, but Jon "Bones" Jones Wins!

Matt "Gumby" Glach
02-07-2011, 06:30 PM
I'm usually the first one to criticize a fighter receiving excessive or undue hype, and as much as I'd love to hate on bones and as much as I do agree with a lot of what you have said, I still don't see anyone at LHW beating bones except maybe machida or anderson silva... anderson vs bones would be the fight i want to see to truly test bones. The old shogun would have a good shot at beating bones, hed have a good shot at beating anyone during his prime, but in 2011... Jones will walk thru shogun, sorry oldtime pride fans, but its inevitable.

Eric Perez
02-07-2011, 06:39 PM
Bones couldnt even put away bonnar. Theres no way in hell hes beating shogun...sorry bones nuthuggers

Eric Perez
02-07-2011, 06:41 PM
Bones has beat a washed up vera, the janitor who sucks and had undue hype behind his ass and beat bader who was also hyped up way to much,,hahaha

Nick Robertson
02-07-2011, 07:12 PM
The only times Bonnar was "finished" were both stoppages due to cuts. Nobody has put Bonnar away. Besides, the dude is only 23 years old and that fight was 2 years ago. I'm sure he's a completely different fighter than he was back then.

Jack LaBarge
02-07-2011, 07:51 PM
Bones couldnt even put away bonnar. Theres no way in hell hes beating shogun...sorry bones nuthuggers

I'm not a nut hugger of Jones! I just live in reality of Shogun's multiple knee surgery's. I can say Shogun was Forrest Griffin's bitch after his last knee surgery. Shogun is not going to be the same fighter from the last 2 Machida fights!

Jonathan Wylie
02-07-2011, 08:01 PM
Bones couldnt even put away bonnar. Theres no way in hell hes beating shogun...sorry bones nuthuggers

So because people have a different oppinion than you there nuthuggers? How old are you? Take that shit to sherdog!

James Davis
02-07-2011, 08:03 PM
Bones has beat a washed up vera, the janitor who sucks and had undue hype behind his ass and beat bader who was also hyped up way to much,,hahaha

so who would you have jones fight so that he would be worthy by your estimation to fight for the title?

Brent Smith
02-07-2011, 09:01 PM
Bones will be champ..as much as i like shogun jones will handle him like he has everybody else. Watch Shogun get some frequent flyer miles

Sam Dibble
02-07-2011, 09:26 PM
Personally I was impressed at how he manhandled Bader, it looked like they were in two different weight classes. Bader has excellent wrestling but jones proved his stuff on the ground. He made a great wrestler look like a white belt. He ate power punches on the feet and kept coming forward. Shogun is a beast but he will have to be %100 physically and ferocious to do any damage to jones. I'd say his one shot is a knockout, I don't see him threatening jones on the ground.

I wish it was Anderson instead of Shogun. Their styles are similar, Bones has the reach, size and cardio to match Anderson, it could make for an incredible fight. After that front kick knockout on Vitor, Anderson looks unbeatable, totally in his element, but I for one haven't forgotten the Chael Sonnen fight, where a wrestler with dominant top control and excellent cardio worked the spider for 24 minutes. Could Bones do the same? We'll get a preview against Shogun, I guarantee Bones' game plan will be to use his reach to set Shogun up for a throw or takedown.

James Davis
02-07-2011, 09:36 PM
I agree....people act like shogun has never lost...he got submitted by forrest then ran through coleman and lidell...I mean one can make the argument that the only person shogun has beat in UFC is Machida...and he couldn't finish him the first time. I will not say that however. Shogun is hardly unbeatable and trying to slug with bones is probably a bad idea...expect jones to also test out that knee with some stiff kicks. Factor in jones was pretending to be rua for rashad's fight and he should be more than prepared for him.

Nate Hollyfield
02-07-2011, 10:24 PM
I just think the reach and strength that Bones has is hugely underestimated. He has to be SUPER strong to hold Bader down, and not to mention, with the longest reach EVER he has an advantage in striking and grappling, but then again Bones is no Black Belt, whereas Shogun is... right? Its been a long day, sorry if this is totally off.

AndyK5
02-08-2011, 03:47 AM
Replying to the OP, the reason is that Shogun got choked out by forest, barely beat Coleman, KO'ed Chuck, lost to machida, then knocked machida out. Now he did look good taking out machida, when he lost to him they both did not look like very damaging fighters, chuck fight I can't comment on and he flat out sucked wind thru his butthole in forest and coleman fights. Reason? Everybody say he blew his knee so thats why. Well, he blew his knee again and it is not a long shot to expect a bad performance from him. There has been no negatives or weaknesses shown by Jones so far. However until he gets exposed he has every right to ride the same train that Machida did. Also although I have never personally seen, rolled or armwresled Ryan Bader, per Joe Rogan he is one of the strongest 205'ers out there and he got man handled by Jon Jones. So would give strength, condition, reach, athleticism, take downs and wrestling advantages to Jones, submissions and technical striking to Rua. Rua maybe with a knee-bar from no-where or a solid knee to the chin from the clinch. Except punchers chances I give the rest of the possibilities to Jones to win.

Eric Perez
02-08-2011, 07:11 AM
so who would you have jones fight so that he would be worthy by your estimation to fight for the title?

Thats just it, he beat Bader, Couture has always been overrated and Machida has been exposed. He said he wouldnt fight Rashad and Rampage is fat. There really is no one else in the light heavy division. It truly is a weak division. The only other guy for him to fight is Forrest and he just fought so thats not happening. Tito or Karlos Vemola would smash him in my opinion

Eric Perez
02-08-2011, 07:19 AM
I am truly a fan of Jones and think he is the future but to say that he would destroy everyone because he has a reach advantage and beat a bunch of scrubs is just dumb. Shogun is gonna derail the hype train

Freddy Chavez
02-08-2011, 07:36 AM
Heard that before.

Jack LaBarge
02-08-2011, 07:42 AM
I am truly a fan of Jones and think he is the future but to say that he would destroy everyone because he has a reach advantage and beat a bunch of scrubs is just dumb. Shogun is gonna derail the hype train

Do you believe in ring rust? Do you believe in elite althetes come back from knee surgery and imediatly are dominate? Ring rust is real!! It takes time coming off knee surgery to get back to their elite status.Shogun will not be 100%!! FACT ! I didn't mention reach, or Jones. I believe Shogun would lose to any of the top 5 light heavy weights right now! Jones future is now.

bobby rivers
02-08-2011, 08:50 AM
So Bonner, Hamilton, and Bader are scrubs, but your not??

Eric Perez
02-08-2011, 10:11 AM
so bonner, hamilton, and bader are scrubs, but your not??

whos hamilton, and we are not talking about me

Harry Evans
02-08-2011, 10:59 AM
@James Davis - That's a good point about the people who lead LHW. I guess he really does need a ton guy anyway, and Machida, Rampage, Thiago (almost a top guy), and Rashad are all out. I wouldn't mind seeing him fight Forrest for more experience, but I think we all know how bad of a mismatch that would be.

Also, if you guys have not seen it yet, search for the sparring video between JDS and Shogun. It's beautiful and brutal, and they both legitimately look like they are approaching Anderson-like vision in the pocket. I'm not saying that they are A. Silva, but I don't think Shogun gets the striking credit he deserves. I'll admit I'm worried about how much time he spends on his back in this fight, though.

@Karim Graham, @James Davis - Thanks for the compliments. Assuming work doesn't get in the way, I'll write that up soon and post it here.