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Tony Toffolo
08-18-2010, 07:35 PM
Hey folks/friends,

I've been rocking the lockdown and its applications a bunch and my training partners are getting hip to it. Anyway, they essentially work the twister pass and I've been struggling to keep them from passing. I know this was discussed a bit in the older forum but I'm curious to know how you guys fight it.

Note that I have seen that Saulo Ribeiro video where he works to get up onto his elbow


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTZv7IEwMeo

but being a smaller guy I have a really hard time with that against larger opponents.

Chris Herzog
08-18-2010, 09:30 PM
Prevention is the key. If you are ultizing the lockdown, you NEED to be working those double underhooks. I tell my guys all the time, you have 2 choices: 1) Double underhooks, or 2) Whizzer/Pimparm. If you are stretching your legs correctly in the lockdown and you have either of the 2 choices, your partners success is going to be greatly reduced, especially with the double unders. If your stretching your lockdown and keep their foot hooked they won't be able to do the twister pass. Their foot needs to be free to be successful with the twister pass.

Tony Toffolo
08-19-2010, 05:06 AM
awesome, thanks Chris

lost
10-26-2010, 11:25 PM
Didn't eddie say in MTS12 that 1 of the top 2 ways he breaks the lockdown is to use that pass.

Tony Toffolo
10-27-2010, 04:47 AM
ya, i think so

the pass is so solid, that's why i find it to be frustrating when you're on the bottom

Bill Keeling
10-27-2010, 06:48 AM
There are sweeps from the bottom of TSC...

Louis Ho
10-27-2010, 07:58 AM
With the move that Saulo showed, do you think that top guy can get a knee ba? And btw, Saulo is very proud of this move. :)

Bill Keeling
10-27-2010, 08:07 AM
A fuuckin knee baa, are u kiddn me, a fuckin knee baa! LMOA! Old school gold!

Louis Ho
10-27-2010, 08:39 AM
On a serious note, if the guy has already engaged twister pass, and he even has his arm jammed between your legs. And take it one step further. He has all of that, and he previously curled his legs real tight so that you didn't even get a chance to complete the lockdown. Any thoughts?

Tony Toffolo
10-27-2010, 09:24 AM
i have no idea what to do from there. you pretty much described the nightmares i have every night when i close my eyes

Hector Ramos
10-27-2010, 10:08 AM
Ditto :s

VJ Bella
10-27-2010, 11:41 AM
this is my personal achilles heel as well...has been for 4 years...sometimes I can get up to my elbow against guys my size but not against bigger stronger guys. There is an easy gi sweep from here but you cant do it in no-gi because there is nothing to grab and pull with.

Another thing I have been seeing alot is the guy on top is triangleing his own legs (like traditional half guard but on the top). He just kind surfs on top and then dives both hands under for the twister side pass (so i never even get the lockdown). They are teaching this here on the east coast ALOT as a way to prevent lockdown players from getting the lockdown...so far it f#$cking me up...havn't figured out how to beat it yet.

Eddie Bravo
10-27-2010, 12:00 PM
Like Herzog said prevention is the key, anticipation doesn't hurt either. As soon as the guy starts to turn you gotta shoot your left arm under his left arm pit and go for an arm triangle aka apollo. If your squeeze is developed and you have your lockdown in you can get the tap from there or at least get him to turn back around and face you :)

Tony Toffolo
10-27-2010, 12:10 PM
^hmm. I really like this idea of shooting your LEFT arm under their right armpit. I've been pretty focused on getting to my right elbow but bigger guys can still smash me back down in this case. But that left arm under theirs would force a bunch on their weight more toward your own ass so you can stay more stable on your elbow, I like it.

lost
10-27-2010, 12:38 PM
Like Herzog said prevention is the key, anticipation doesn't hurt either. As soon as the guy starts to turn you gotta shoot your left arm under his left arm pit and go for an arm triangle aka apollo. If your squeeze is developed and you have your lockdown in you can get the tap from there or at least get him to turn back around and face you :)

I can't see how this triangle works, anyone have a video or picture of it.

lost
10-27-2010, 01:01 PM
I can't see how this triangle works, anyone have a video or picture of it.

Forget it I get the idea.

Another question, what can you do when he starts his pass with his left arm lower down your torso so you can't get your left arm under.

lost
10-27-2010, 01:11 PM
Forget that question too, I should think before I ask questions sometimes:)

Tony Toffolo
10-27-2010, 02:08 PM
The only other issue is that some guys prefer to crossface rather than passing their left arm over you. My instructor likes to do that and I suppose you can't really shoot your left arm through under his left armpit in this case.

This might leave them vulnerable to being swept if you quickly switch your left leg to a butterfly hook and reach with a deep underhook using your left arm.

goat314
10-28-2010, 10:04 AM
I'd think you need to push the crossface over and go for the triangle there. This past week I got into a half guard battle with a guy i've been working 10pjj stuff with. He went to the twister and i sat up, and seat belted him as he was messing with my legs. I don't know if I had anything from there, but he quickly stopped the twister pass and turned back into my half guard.