Did I join a McDojo?? Thoughts on blackbelts?

Just a warning..this is long and I kinda ranted…it felt good to write if you don’t want to read it please don’t but I’d appreciate feedback because it’d be helpful:


Hey everyone. I am just wondering if I joined a McDojo awhile back at my previous school and if the things i mention specifically attribute it to being a mcdojo and if i wasted of my money and time. I started about 4 years ago but discontinued as of recently because my work schedule interfered, moved out of state and also decided to finish college. Anyways, there was conditioning and a whole world of things we would do in the class including some mma techniques. The style is kajukenbo (I just called it karate) and the class would sometimes have kata in the beginning that we'd learn before the training began. Often times each month the training would shift after a belt/tip test. You get 3 tips until the next rank. sometimes when taking a tip test all you'd have to do is a little sparring and memorize the kata which i hated. there are 8 belts- white, yellow, orange, blue, purple, green, brown, then student black…you’d wait 6 months and receive an honors black after you went to black belt school and took a black belt test. The rankings after that were degrees (2nd, 3rd, etc.) which generally takes 2 years to achieve at each time and you could earn a sifu ranking to train the class by teaching classes. There is a grandmaster as well that has a lineage to kajukenbo in the system. I stopped after getting to a brown belt and I was consistent in the beginning when I had the time to go a lot and got into excellent shape. When I had a fulltime job i was less dedicated and would go in spurts of time, sometimes a few weeks straight and often times not for weeks or months which is why I never got a blackbelt in the 4 year period. From what I understand the blackbelt tests were rigorous and kind of a society where you’d spend the night and basically train and you would get broken both mentally and physically. Anyways, the curriculum switched as I said and there would be boxing one month, then muay thai, ground fighting (submissions), competition sparring, etc. sometimes we’d mix it up, spar either point fighting or continuous point fighting and learn using weapons like nunchucks or sticks. We’d condition before/after class whether it was run around the mat, do abs, or some other crazy routine like hitting the punching bag continuously or do pushup etc.. Whatever, now my understanding is that mcdojos don’t spar but we did do that and hit/kick each other. some months we worked on competition point sparring where you’d hit the head gear and couldn’t hit the face…..but other times when that wasn’t the curriculum and we’d do boxing we were allowed to. Anyways some of these things seem like it isn’t a mcdojo because I would condition hard, do jiu jitsu (no gi) and stickfighting after classes each week as an extra class to those with higher membership which was fun, and sometimes muay thai. But, some things did make me think it was a mcdojo based on readings of warning signs to what a mcdojo is:

The price was outrageous and I had a decent job to pay for it, but it ranged from 150-200 a month based on the membership whether it was unlimited or not (i had unlimited). Also, when my debit card expired where it was being withdrawn from, a collection agency sent me a notice and called me which was slightly annoying. Plus, the membership options were at least 6-12 months because they want your dedication and if I couldn’t go one month because of work or whatever reasons, I was locked in and lost out on that month and paid for it. Also, if I go consistently and participated in certain events and tournaments, I could get extra tips (stripes to put on the belt progressing to the next belt rank) which means within 1 ½ - 2 years I could be a black belt. The grandmaster is under 50 and has a master under him that is under 25. Now, I know what people say about black belts and it not meaning anything anymore when stuff like this happens, but this is a topic for debate to what a blackbelt means in each style. It means the dedication, right? so if I stuck with it would I have earned the blackbelt justifiably even if it was in 2 years in that style? Or should a blackbelt mean having that dedication and being a badass dude in the style. I think of this blackbelt concept as being smart vs. intelligent. You can do things smartly and have discipline and succeed by doing the right things but you may not be intelligent. Intelligent people are naturally gifted and are badass dudes that can remember things easily and conquer things because…well they are intelligent..may not even need to study for a test but get an A. Or working hard at being athletic to do certain things vs. being naturally talented and using that talent to get on another level. Some people think “that dude/chick is a blackbelt but I could knock her out” because she’s small or too young or old even though she or he put in the time, but is that what we should think when we see a blackbelt or does it HAVE to be “that guy has SICK jits and could choke the fuck out of my life” like looking at a rickson gracie type dude who has all the physical qualities as well? Sorry I ranted and those examples probably suck, just a thought on that because mcdojos are attributed to people having blackbelts...back to the mcdojo part. So all things considered I did get into good shape when i went consistently and when I got into a street fight during the time I did well and won (I don’t go looking for street fights but i choked this guy out…i am not bragging and the situation sucked) and I attribute it to the training I did, but what about the fact of the belt system? collections agency, price, paying for belt tests and the blackbelt school, the short term blackbelt, kids classes, training TKD/karate type sparring and traditional kata etc.??? Also they have a childrens program where kids could be blackbelts but it wasn’t an honors blackbelt, that was saved for adults. they say kids that have blackbelts or a system called tiny tigers/dragons (which this one did) is a mcdojo. But, overall it is a positive friendly family environment. Thoughts? I appreciate anyone who reads this as I know it was long. I just spent a long time at this other place and felt I spent a lot of money and it’d be nice to hear an outside perspective based on all the things about this school and schools like it. I moved and am looking forward to training at a jiu jitsu school thats nearby where I am right now under the Ribeiro brothers, Saulo and Xande, and would love to train at 10th planet in the future when I finish school. Thanks.

What is the instructors name and what is his lineage?

Even karate has a lineage structure that can be researched.

I also do kenpo 2000 (american kenpo)under skip hancock (ed parker student) and it takes about 8-10yrs to acheive you BB in their system..i takes about a year to achieve your next level and we test..my instructors lineage can be traced and have been doing the art for almot 30yrs..Ed Parker was kind of like Eddie Bravo of his time.. he wanted Kenpo to adapt to the student and what worked for one wouldnt work for another but gave you a path.. we dont train for point sparring..we spar but its contious sparring..when i do tournaments you can tell the diffenrce between our school and "tournament training schools" i am the one getting called for execssive force and not stopping when they say stop :)

I'm familiar with the style and would say its more aligned with "krav maga" than anything remotely close to karate. Judo player would say that a bllack belt means nothing more than a significance of your start in learning. I think two years is a bit too soon for a black belt considering it takes around 8-10years for respectful martial arts to get there. However, much like KM the attempt youre talking about is more for the street. Take it for what its worth.

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Originally Posted by Shellby

I also do kenpo 2000 (american kenpo)under skip hancock (ed parker student) and it takes about 8-10yrs to acheive you BB in their system..i takes about a year to achieve your next level and we test..my instructors lineage can be traced and have been doing the art for almot 30yrs..Ed Parker was kind of like Eddie Bravo of his time.. he wanted Kenpo to adapt to the student and what worked for one wouldnt work for another but gave you a path.. we dont train for point sparring..we spar but its contious sparring..when i do tournaments you can tell the diffenrce between our school and "tournament training schools" i am the one getting called for execssive force and not stopping when they say stop :)

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I also did American kenpo in the Tracey system (1st brown) and the Parker system (3rd brown) with both instructors having lineage back to Ed Parker. When I had to quit with my first instructor (Tracey system) when he starting developing Alzheimer's from which he later passed, I went to another school which was tkd based hybrid (which I'm a bb), I saw that I was way more knowledgeable than many of the higher ranking BB. The point I'm making is that you should choose an art that has reputable instructors but also one in which you learn what you are looking for from a martial art. I have set my personal sights on 10pjj because as mentioned previously, its foundation in teaching is similar to kenpo. Showing you different sequences and allowing you to choose the path that suits you. Glad to have met someone else on the forum who is a kenpo guy, it truly is one of the better traditional styles of martial arts and very effective has a street style self defense. In my years as a bouncer and bounty hunter, I relied on kenpo to stay safe.

@late 85

Well man it seems the way you described the training that you trained hard enough. The price was high so I would have found somewhere else to train. With you being a brownbelt I think you yourself can answer the question on if it was a Mcdojo or not. I mean are you good at whatever you were learning? My school can take a dude thats out of shape and never trained a day in his life and give us 6 months and he will be in pretty good shape with pretty good standup and jiu jitsu. He may not be no proffessional level yet but I guarantee you he will be able to beat most traditional martial art blackbelts in a fight.

A thing about the black belt is that when you achieve a blackbelt (also remembering that most american places are watered down a bit) it doesn't signal that you are a badass. All the blackbelt means is that you know the art. You know various "self defense" moves that may have the potential to save your life. If you done point sparring you may be able to fight a little bit but nothing like full contact fighters would be able to. So it's important to always train full contact as well. I see maybe one out of every 7 blackbelts in karate who are pretty good at the art. The rest are out of shape dudes who get their thrills from katas.

I had an instructor in karate long ago that told me a story. I had questioned the validity of one of his black belts as it was a woman around 45 years of age and she was probably 260 pounds. This to was Taekwondo and Taekwondo people are known for great athleticism and kicks. He explained to me that not all people are built the same. Where as I may be a hell of a kicker the guy next to me may not be able to get his leg up 2 feet. Where as someone else may be quick as hell , the next person may be slow. While I believe this is true I do not agree whole front. He said this woman was simply a black belt "at her on level". I said okay. Well I got to thinking one day and said shit, there are ladies around the same age that go to the weight lifting gym I do and are in better shape than that woman...........and you know what ..............Im pretty sure they could kick her blackbelt ass!!!! If you join Martial Art and train for 2 to three years and you still can't kick above the waist????????You still get out of breathe during Kata????????You still are 100 pounds over weight????????? No wonder your a blackbelt in your "own level". You don't train hard enough to break the level it takes to exceed in Martial Art. Your blackbelt is a fake.

Cheers Mate.