Your go to bottom game when rolling with bigger guys?

What's your go to game against a much bigger, stronger, wider guy when being on top is not an option, breaking their posture isn't working so you have to abort the rubber guard and sweeping is pointless because they'll just explode back to top position?

How do you be offensive and attack in this situation?

I tried double wrist control and throwing up triangles and arm locks from there but just got shrugged off easily because he had posture, plus if it was MMA rolling I would've got smashed (luckily it wasn't)

I've only really had success attacking bigger guys with guillotines from butterfly guard or half guard

Any help or input would be very much appreciated!

hi Jezrah. Definitely perfect your butterfly game. sweeps and path to the back are neat from that position. also, don't be afraid to stand up and take top position.

Reps

butterfly guard works best for me against big dudes.

I like to try to break them down and armdrag as they resist and posture up. If they are that much bigger and stronger maintain a tight armdrag and let them help you get up and around them as they pull back. I also like kit dale's great white grip. working the russian two on one from butterfly or half. Basically anything that lets me go two on one.

+1 on the butterfly guard sweeps. Works wonders on big guys that I can't do anything else to

Gi: spider, DLR, and half. No-gi: HOOKS. Butterfly, Half, and RDLR.

It seems counter intuitive, but unless you are good at arm drags and getting their backs, you're going to have to find the best way to "carry their weight." Doing so, allows you to tip them over (rather than the SHAZAM fast sweep we think of with sweeps). Your knees, your hooks, something to where they are on you but movable.

Reps, yes. lol

I use 2 on 1s with DLR and foot on Bicep(spiderguardish) vs big dudes. And 1/2 Guard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

I use 2 on 1s with DLR and foot on Bicep(spiderguardish) vs big dudes.

---

Chris, you are a bigger guy, relatively speaking. What do 150 pounders you roll against do from the bottom that give you troubles while on top?

Butterfly guard for sure. I like butterfly for MMA and self defense applications as well because you can basically stand up and leave at anytime.

If you are in a situation where you have no fear of getting punched in the mouth, Z guard is awesome against big guys.

To me, though, it doesn't matter what guard you use if you don't understand frames and hip movement. Without being able to make small hip movements to recover your guard and without frames to keep his weight off of you while you move you're just gonna get your nose driven into the dirt, regardless of your chosen guard style.

Lockdown with perfect double underhooks. Keep that weight off.

You're talking no-gi I assume? In general I do anything I can to get on top. This is not the time to work my fancy subs from the bottom. I'm getting older and I can't afford the potential injuries. Me on top = me safer.

If they're on their knees I'd say butterfly guard is a great game to play. You can manage distance, and mix in your hook sweeps with seated wrestling, arm drags, 1 on 1s, base out and snag the front headlock, etc. If they stand or post on a foot or hand from a hook sweep, it's great to transition to your X guard or 1 leg X guard. From there you have such a strong manipulation of their base that they should be pretty easy to sweep.

If they're on their feet instead of their knees, you can try to enter directly into your X or 1 leg X. You could try to come onto a single leg from the seated guard.

The spiral/reverse delariva is also a great option. The free leg is great for managing distance so they can't smash you. The primary attack from there involves inverting and rolling through to the back. I have mixed feelings on this against bigger guys. it works great if your technique is sharp, because if you do it properly their weight should not be on you as you invert and spin under. But if you haven't put in the practice yet you could find yourself getting stacked badly. I still think the spiral guard is great for tripod sweeps, coming up to singles, arm drags, kimura sweeps, overhead sweeps, or going to the reverse x guard.

Closed guard is also a good option for slowing things down if they get out of hand. I'm not a big closed guard guy in no-gi, but it's solid. I'm mainly not big on half guard against big strong dudes because of how easily they can smash you and you lose your ability to control the distance. I would give an exception to the "waiter" style deep half or even the Jeff Glover style deep half where you use your outside or inside foot as a hook. Regular half I hate against big guys. Even lockdown. it's great control, but I'm also pinning my own hips in place and I think it's too energy intensive compared to some easier ways to play guard and sweep.

Watch Marcelo Garcia and Rafa Mendes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greg W

Chris, you are a bigger guy, relatively speaking. What do 150 pounders you roll against do from the bottom that give you troubles while on top?

---

Hip mobility and leg dexterity. It forces me to play more conservative and focus on eliminating space throughout transitioning ie passing, moving from position to positing, etc.

Lockdown baby.

Its definitely harder to get the behemoths with an electric chair, (but you can always threaten it) so I have really been improving my whip to dogfight. I roll them back and forth between the two with a good extension.

Marcelo says he chose to focus on butterfly work because he wanted to do things that would (almost) always work on bigger opponents. Makes sense to me.

I'm 240 and usually on the other end of this, but... all things being equal, big guys will tire out first. Keep moving, stay mobile, make it top priority not to get pinned and smashed. Move, move, and move. +50 pts for taking the back. Armdrags ftw.

Dudes have to outweigh you massively for the electric chair to stop working (though you might be more likely to have to take stoner control.)

I haven't played much gogo clinch but MTS 77 has Eddie recommending it for big dudes.

In my limited experience,I chase prison guard or half guard. In prison guard,I'm off to the side and high enough with my clinch for posture and size to be more useful to me. In half guard,I'm more likely to whip down,try 5-0 or EC,or maybe risk some deep half work if I can compromise their base enough

imo, the big thing about big guys on top is their weight. in saying that, i think a good thing to keep in mind would be to keep a side and therefore stopping them from putting their weight on you. that includes what the people here have all suggested. butterfly guard gogo clinch, half guard, etc.

personally i like flying kung fus etc for big guys. that instantly gets you on your side and makes it harder for them to lift you or regain posture. i think back takes are awesome against big guys. ive been getting a guillotine on them and when they posture up ill follow and go to my feet and if i lose it, i go for the back. watch jeff glover on back takes, or the miyao bros, or sean applegate on the forum here. :)

Yeeeeep yep yep!
I taught him that!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

Butterfly guard for sure. I like butterfly for MMA and self defense applications as well because you can basically stand up and leave at anytime.

If you are in a situation where you have no fear of getting punched in the mouth, Z guard is awesome against big guys.

To me, though, it doesn't matter what guard you use if you don't understand frames and hip movement. Without being able to make small hip movements to recover your guard and without frames to keep his weight off of you while you move you're just gonna get your nose driven into the dirt, regardless of your chosen guard style.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike Nall

The spiral/reverse delariva is also a great option. The free leg is great for managing distance so they can't smash you. The primary attack from there involves inverting and rolling through to the back. I have mixed feelings on this against bigger guys. it works great if your technique is sharp, ...

---

word. using that free leg is an art in itself. took me quite a while to develop this but has made a large difference when it comes to guys knee slicing from standing.

i watch rafa just to see how well he pummels that leg inside, on the bicep, etc.

Butterfly s, sneaky sweeps and be fast

Butterfly guard and Gogo Clinch path for me.

Hey jezrah, I just saw that you're from chch. we should meet up and train at some point. ill be up there in december for a while. where do you train? groundworks? strikeforce?

Awesome to see more people in nz picking it up

Hunting for over hooks in butterfly and Z, then BAM! Flying Kung fu to Gogo clinch/plata