Consistency and Keeping the Flow Question

Hey everyone. I have really been working a lot on flow rolling since my first days in jiu jitsu vs a super smashing, smothering game.
I still am always trying to keep a solid flow going, and its really a big part of my game to be able to catch people in transition between multiple submission chains.

However...

Sometimes I will roll in the same day, and feel like I lose my the rhythm/flow in my game..
It could be the exact same opponent 2 minutes apart.. Not sure if its focus or lack of paths, etc. What do you all do when/if this ever happened to you?

There are times it seems I keep coming to road blocks and that moment I am unable to open up anything in my jiu jitsu arsenal. I cant seem to flow and I feel stuck like a boxer in a rhythm of jab... jab... jab... jab... no 1,2. No combos. Just jabs.. It seems like until the next roll, I am stuck unable to recollect myself or hit the restart button.


Noticing this I asked my coach... He said he has similar expereinces and had given some advice to me that was rather helpful. At first my coach said that he just moves onto the next person when this happens to him. Being that I compete regularly when I am healthy...This didn't seem like a great option for me personally. Then he also said to work to a position or two that I am most comfortable in and take a moment to restart from there. This seems like a solid plan to work on.

Seeing as all people work in different ways, I wanted to see what other options people have come up with to trouble shoot this. I was also given advice that I just need more time on the mats, which definitely makes sense. If I have a lot more paths that I am truly embedding into my DNA then I may also have less road blocks when it comes to flow.

In the mean time I was curious to see what other fighters do to reset in the middle of a roll when things don't seem to be going their way mentally/with flowing.

Hi Stan,
This is a very good question and something you should know early on. Being that you are listed as a white belt, now's a good time as ever to start.

Yes, you do need more time on the mats. With more time you gain more experience. If you get stuck with the "jab jab jab", this is normal. It's not so much you want to reset in the middle of a roll when you aren't flowing correctly. You do want to get out of the position at hand, so that you are able to reset. Let's say someone passed your guard. You don't just give up and reset. Better to learn how to not get your guard passed(drills), and equally as important is to get put in the position right from the start. Learn the escape for that position until it becomes automatic for you.

Once you get good at escaping that position, people may jump to North-south and start submitting you from there, and you want to reset to say, side control. Same formula: right from the start of the match, go inverted and let them take North-south. And you just work your way out. Part of it is going to be a feeling out process, and part of it will be asking professors/friends/scouring the net, about how to escape new "bad" position.

Once you are escaping N-S, to side control escape, to knee on belly escape, to mount escape, in one big chain, you get to see the beauty of jiu jitsu for it's flow. No one position should allow you to freeze up on. You just maybe haven't got the reps for that spot yet. And once you are escaping, look for a counter attack in the middle of the escape... you know your opponent wants to sub you in transition, so why can't you do the same?

Hope this helps some.
Rick

Thanks for the reply Rick! It does help a little. However my issue is a bit different. I don't necessarily ever feel stuck without a plan anymore in most defensive, bad positions. My awareness is good enough in any spot now and I feel confident to launch on my defenses in most positions and submissions as well. I do at this point have multiple escapes/techniques in place for just about every BAD position. In north south I use B Smith a lot, I like to use a South/north choke counter, and a few others. In side control I have endless paths to escape from lockdown to ghost series, Heisman, traditional half, dogfight, etc. I use truck stop for the truck, and have paths and plans in place for almost every position from judo side to quarter guard, and so on.

I am more having an issue keeping 5-10 chains together (including variables depending on their responses) without them falling apart. It makes flowing a lot harder. When you watch a guy like Jeff Glover you can see the fluidity. He moves from one transition to the next to the next and even the commentators and opponents can't keep up. He may not get the position but he is so smooth he just moves onto the next chain and the flow is endless. He at his level can chain 50+ things seamlessly. I aspire for 10+ myself until I get to a higher level. This is my style. A lot of people in the midwest where I live are grinders. They don't flow and they want to slowly crush your will instead of playing an open game. I am seeking some people who really focus on flow and what they did to get sharper, better, and longer chains together.

This may very well just be more time spent on the mats, and as simple as that. However I am curious if people like Jeff have a rule of holding onto any position for no more than a few seconds. Just curious how their mind works and puts the chains together lol. It may be a lack of organization on my part. I used to roll free minded a lot instead of chaining together proper techniques.

My issue really is that I know many of the techniques, many of the chains even, but I struggle to sometimes launch on them in more than singular attacks. At this point, the warm-ups are all in my DNA as well.

The most imporant thing I am trying to get across is that sometimes I can chain 10 together. I know the flow I know the pattern, and the order. And sometimes a roll apart I cant seem to launch on the exact same path. Idk if its a mental block, or lack of focus. Lack of consistency. Its not a lack of knowledge because I can successfully launch on the attacks 1 roll apart. Just some rolls feel like you can't get anything started sometimes.

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Originally Posted by stan myaskovskiy

Thanks for the reply Rick! It does help a little. However my issue is a bit different. I don't necessarily ever feel stuck without a plan anymore in most defensive, bad positions. My awareness is good enough in any spot now and I feel confident to launch on my defenses in most positions and submissions as well. I do at this point have multiple escapes/techniques in place for just about every BAD position. In north south I use B Smith a lot, I like to use a South/north choke counter, and a few others. In side control I have endless paths to escape from lockdown to ghost series, Heisman, traditional half, dogfight, etc. I use truck stop for the truck, and have paths and plans in place for almost every position from judo side to quarter guard, and so on.

I am more having an issue keeping 5-10 chains together (including variables depending on their responses) without them falling apart. It makes flowing a lot harder. When you watch a guy like Jeff Glover you can see the fluidity. He moves from one transition to the next to the next and even the commentators and opponents can't keep up. He may not get the position but he is so smooth he just moves onto the next chain and the flow is endless. He at his level can chain 50+ things seamlessly. I aspire for 10+ myself until I get to a higher level. This is my style. A lot of people in the midwest where I live are grinders. They don't flow and they want to slowly crush your will instead of playing an open game. I am seeking some people who really focus on flow and what they did to get sharper, better, and longer chains together.

This may very well just be more time spent on the mats, and as simple as that. However I am curious if people like Jeff have a rule of holding onto any position for no more than a few seconds. Just curious how their mind works and puts the chains together lol. It may be a lack of organization on my part. I used to roll free minded a lot instead of chaining together proper techniques.

My issue really is that I know many of the techniques, many of the chains even, but I struggle to sometimes launch on them in more than singular attacks. At this point, the warm-ups are all in my DNA as well.

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Cool man. Yeah just roll more then. If you are getting 5-10 chains together you sounds like a very good grappler. You sure you aren't black belt posing as a white belt on the forum? LOL. Anyhow, roll more, like 10-14 classes a week. You'll be okay after that.

I promise I am not a black belt.. :p In all honesty I am have trained for about 4-5 years. At first it was primarily on my own or with beginners. Never for competition purposes. I just enjoyed learning the sport. I opened my own gym for the last two years and worked a lot from books, videos, etc. I then really started to wanted to earn my blue belt. I didn't want to go to a school where I just trained for X number of weeks and passed a moves test and then around the same time by coincidence, I met my 10th planet coach!

A nicely dressed gentleman came in our gym door asking if we wanted to advertise on tv. Who knew it would be my coach in the future lol. Luckily I met Yooper Greg and he has been an amazing coach for me. He has really elevated my game and my last year and a half or so I have become a better jiu jitsu practitioner than the last 3-4 combined!

I started competing last year and if you look on the forums you can see the drastic improvements that were made. I was all submissions but had no transitions whatsoever. A lot has changed in my game and its getting better every single day. ;p Anyways, He isn't allowed to belt anyone being that he has a hotbox. Now my own gym is closed and 100% of my time is spent with the Yooper 10th planet hotbox (Upper Peninsula Michigan in the Middle of no-where).

I am one of those guys who lives out in the middle of the woods and I haven't the opportunity to train long enough with any of the Moon heads. I did recently win my match at the great lakes camp and have been trying to compete a lot in the last year. It has brought my game up incredibly and I hope that someday the moon heads notice the work I am putting in. I am a white belt until they tell me I am not ;) and it doesn't worry me.

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Originally Posted by Slick Rick

Anyhow, roll more, like 10-14 classes a week. You'll be okay after that.

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This may be one of the biggest problems. Being that I live in the middle of nowhere, I have to drive 1-3 times a week to visit 10th planet which is 3 hours round trip. My school also closed so I no longer have beginners to work with. I try to get out every time they have a class. But that is still not enough. 10-14 would be amazing for my game!

I am strongly considering a move to Oregon, Colorado, or another strong 10th planet school to further my "career". This is what I love and I would roll all day if I only had people with similar interests. I could live on the mats and get off them only to eat, sleep, and burn. ;p I want to do it for the rest of my life. Its a practical sport to do. Many are to hard on the body.

I played semi pro hockey and athletics have been a art of my life since I was 2 years old. My dad was an olympic trainer for the soviets in ice hockey during the 80s so you can only imagine the crazy training I had to go through lol. My body was a mess by age 11. Hockey is NOT a sport you can do your whole life. If you train smart... jiu jitsu is. Its one of the many reasons why I fell in love with it.

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Originally Posted by stan myaskovskiy

I promise I am not a black belt.. :p In all honesty I am have trained for about 4-5 years. At first it was primarily on my own or with beginners. Never for competition purposes. I just enjoyed learning the sport. I opened my own gym for the last two years and worked a lot from books, videos, etc. I then really started to wanted to earn my blue belt. I didn't want to go to a school where I just trained for X number of weeks and passed a moves test and then around the same time by coincidence, I met my 10th planet coach!

A nicely dressed gentleman came in our gym door asking if we wanted to advertise on tv. Who knew it would be my coach in the future lol. Luckily I met Yooper Greg and he has been an amazing coach for me. He has really elevated my game and my last year and a half or so I have become a better jiu jitsu practitioner than the last 3-4 combined!

I started competing last year and if you look on the forums you can see the drastic improvements that were made. I was all submissions but had no transitions whatsoever. A lot has changed in my game and its getting better every single day. ;p Anyways, He isn't allowed to belt anyone being that he has a hotbox. Now my own gym is closed and 100% of my time is spent with the Yooper 10th planet hotbox (Upper Peninsula Michigan in the Middle of no-where).

I am one of those guys who lives out in the middle of the woods and I haven't the opportunity to train long enough with any of the Moon heads. I did recently win my match at the great lakes camp and have been trying to compete a lot in the last year. It has brought my game up incredibly and I hope that someday the moon heads notice the work I am putting in. I am a white belt until they tell me I am not ;) and it doesn't worry me.

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that's an inspiring story man! dude you should see about making regular visits to Adlai's school. I don't know how far that would be for you but Adlai is super nice and knowledgeable. He could be your sponsor. Just a suggestion. cool brotha, I wish I could tell you more that would help your game. It seems you got a good grasp on what to do, just don't have enough training partners or days to bust moves.

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Originally Posted by Slick Rick

that's an inspiring story man! dude you should see about making regular visits to Adlai's school. I don't know how far that would be for you but Adlai is super nice and knowledgeable. He could be your sponsor. Just a suggestion. cool brotha, I wish I could tell you more that would help your game. It seems you got a good grasp on what to do, just don't have enough training partners or days to bust moves.

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Thanks! Someday I hope we get to roll and meet, you seem like a very standup guy!

I have been to Adlai's seminars twice now, saw him at great lakes camp. Very knowledgeable, nice guy. Nasty crucifix I added to my game. He is 8 hours away from where I live, which is a bit far.

This week I am 75% sure I am headed back to Chicago North which sponsors our hotbox. Josh was recently promoted to brown and is a baaad dude! I have trained with him once and have never felt top pressure quite like his pound for pound. I thought my conditioning was on point but his pressure is absolutely lung crushing! I will be also tring to visit Eddie at HQ before February and possibly make a trip to visit Nathan Wallner and Nathan Orchard to see what the area is like (may move there)

Try to focus on principles while you are moving your body. Find the ones that make the chains you like work, and strive to improve your entire game on them. I used to try to move in some choreographed paths when I first started. It can get frustrating if your entire game is linear and someone breaks your path. I know this will sound cliché, but be like water. Move based on principle and the techniques will follow.

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Originally Posted by stan myaskovskiy

Thanks! Someday I hope we get to roll and meet, you seem like a very standup guy!

I have been to Adlai's seminars twice now, saw him at great lakes camp. Very knowledgeable, nice guy. Nasty crucifix I added to my game. He is 8 hours away from where I live, which is a bit far.

This week I am 75% sure I am headed back to Chicago North which sponsors our hotbox. Josh was recently promoted to brown and is a baaad dude! I have trained with him once and have never felt top pressure quite like his pound for pound. I thought my conditioning was on point but his pressure is absolutely lung crushing! I will be also tring to visit Eddie at HQ before February and possibly make a trip to visit Nathan Wallner and Nathan Orchard to see what the area is like (may move there)

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too awesome brotha! Josh at 10p Chicago is super knowledgeable about the system and wrestling. I know what you mean about the pressure. He's a beast. You're lucky to be sponsored by him. A trip to Oregon will be beneficial for you. Hey you may even shack up there. It's very green up there. And yes, if you ever get to HQ, I'd love to meet up with ya and get some rolls in. Always good to roll w new people and put a name to a face. The forums get us talking but it's a different story meeting in person. It's kinda cool!

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Originally Posted by sean applegate

Try to focus on principles while you are moving your body. Find the ones that make the chains you like work, and strive to improve your entire game on them. I used to try to move in some choreographed paths when I first started. It can get frustrating if your entire game is linear and someone breaks your path. I know this will sound cliché, but be like water. Move based on principle and the techniques will follow.

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Thanks Sean, I will definitely focus on that. Thanks always for the advice!

On a separate note, I also noticed that sometimes I lose my chain because I focus too much on finishing a good submission and then forget to always know instantly what my backup is when I bail. of course a lot of this is more time on the mats as well. :)

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Originally Posted by stan myaskovskiy

Thanks Sean, I will definitely focus on that. Thanks always for the advice!

On a separate note, I also noticed that sometimes I lose my chain because I focus too much on finishing a good submission and then forget to always know instantly what my backup is when I bail. of course a lot of this is more time on the mats as well. :)

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I train with a flavio behring purple belt and we work on a lot of speed. to explain better. it feels like everything moves a lot faster because neither of us really sit in one position for too long. At the start I found that I was making a lot of mistakes and being sloppy but after training like that for a while, I've tightened my game up a whole bunch and everythign feels slower now.

On a side note, people talk about position before submission and vice versa but I have afeeling that its position with submission. when you sweep someone, you should aim to fall into a submission immediately and when you have a submission, use it to get a better position. I'm working on blending the two into my game a lot more at the moment. I'm noticing with one of my other training partners that it is really helping.

So anyway maybe trying to increase your speed and never stop moving will help. ID also suggest stopping all this thinking. you wont flow if you think every step through. trust your body to do what is right, if you get it wrong then all you do is tap and keep on trying.

good luck mate

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Originally Posted by stan myaskovskiy

I am strongly considering a move to Oregon, Colorado, or another strong 10th planet school to further my "career".

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I've lived and been to many places, but Colorado is the best thus far. It's gorgeous and the people are cool, plus there are tons of simple beautiful women here, not saturated with make-up. And Boulder, damn, it's an awesome area with plenty to do. The only other state I've seriously considered moving to is Oregon. You can't really go wrong with either move.

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Originally Posted by Isaac Atley

ID also suggest stopping all this thinking. you wont flow if you think every step through. trust your body to do what is right, if you get it wrong then all you do is tap and keep on trying.

good luck mate

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Isaac, i appreciate the reply. A lot of good observations.

One thing I wanted to touch on was the last comment. I would say that in the first couple years of rolling, especially with lower level opponents I used to not "think" too much. You get away with a lot when you aren't dealing with killers every day, which I personally wasn't in the beginning. In the last year or two, since I have been REALLY paying attention to flow charts, paths, and really dealing with higher level opponents, my game has increased 10 fold. I feel like you have to do everything with purpose to start seeing massive improvements in your game. I used to just go roll, not think too much. Now, every class I drive and decide what 2-3 things I really want to work on and improve, and also what submission chains I want to use that day to get to my favorite finishes.

(IMO). With beginners and lower level comp you can throw a leg up and threaten a triangle, armbar, see what happens. Sure your mind can go to other places. The second you just throw up a leg without thinking on a high level grappler, you get passed, and sometimes smashed in the process. I do agree that the ULTIMATE GOAL is to flow through every single transition without HAVING to think about the moves and where what goes. But still I am then just thinking in different ways. In that case, you REALLY fully dive in and focus on the mental aspect of jiu jitsu and start setting traps and thinking 5, 10 moves ahead of your opponent. If you aren't thinking in this particular sport (again in my own opinion) you are going to constantly walk into traps yourself.

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Originally Posted by JHouse

I've lived and been to many places, but Colorado is the best thus far. It's gorgeous and the people are cool, plus there are tons of simple beautiful women here, not saturated with make-up. And Boulder, damn, it's an awesome area with plenty to do. The only other state I've seriously considered moving to is Oregon. You can't really go wrong with either move.

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Making it sound like a good choice ;p