Rolling troubles, would like your tips/hints

Alright, after about a 5 year break I'm back. Been going solid 3 days a week at a Gi school for 3 weeks. It's all coming back, slowly but surely. I'm really getting solid at pulling half guard to lock down, but that's where it ends. I'm stuck. They hold my gi and typically keep my shoulders flat. I've usually got my double under hooks and get on a hip, but they will grab my gi and pin my top half down. It's a stall that usually goes in their favor. I'm not trying to transition to anything else because I really want to focus on one thing at a time. Right now it's just half guard game. So I get it that if its not working try something else, but I am stubborn and prefer to keep attacking with it until I figure out a way to make it work. What do you suggest?

Use the lockdown to manipulate his base as opposed to just trapping it. The most common mistake I see is people using only half their body at a time in sequence. Upper then lower then upper, while one is working the other is kinda stagnant. Use your whole body as a unit at once.

Also, don't be stubborn. Part of the beauty of lockdown is the ability to transition to b-fly via stomp. You can always go work for a deeper underhook(grab his belt or far lapel) and transition back. If you feel stuck, the ability to transition to a position of mobility is everything.

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Originally Posted by ErikLavigne

So I get it that if its not working try something else, but I am stubborn and prefer to keep attacking with it until I figure out a way to make it work. What do you suggest?

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Something one of my instructors harps on all the time is that "every move works, and every move sucks." In other words, as he puts it, a move will work against a world class black belt just as soon as it'll fail against a brand new white belt. It's all about timing, execution, and using the move when it is called for. The lockdown is little more than a stalling position if you don't use your whip-ups liberally and work to get on your side. If you're playing gi, feed his lapel behind his back toward the lockdown side and use it as a stronger handle than just your normal underhook. This makes getting to dogfight much, much easier in the gi. You'd obviously have to let it go to play the electric chair but the lapel can give you a great handle to help you shrimp on your side. In nogi, there's less friction thus less of a need to have such a strong handle, i.e. it's generally easier to get on your side. A guy that would like to pass you needs to put you on your back. Just having that knowledge can buy you that split second where you don't allow yourself to get flattened out. If you're flat, your mind should be to fight for the double underhooks and work to get on your side. Things start to open up when you learn when it's beneficial to open your lockdown for things like the dogfight. This will take time and reps. You'll see tiny gains, the more you train. Guys might still smash you, pass you, submit you. Don't get discouraged. The gains may seem monumental at times, microscopic at others, but you will never actually get WORSE by training:)

One other thing: in the gi, from experience I know it's possible to get ezekiel choked even if you have a lockdown and a tight clinch. You have to keep your head tucked and allow no space for access to your neck.

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Originally Posted by Arman Fathi

One other thing: in the gi, from experience I know it's possible to get ezekiel choked even if you have a lockdown and a tight clinch. You have to keep your head tucked and allow no space for access to your neck.

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I had learned many times over that I can be collar choked/azekiel from everywhere. Very annoying, but I'm learning how to defend. Thanks for the tips. I think that I have been doing what you're saying, going for the lockdown with out keeping my upper half busy too. Gotta keep it all moving

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Originally Posted by ErikLavigne

Alright, after about a 5 year break I'm back. Been going solid 3 days a week at a Gi school for 3 weeks. It's all coming back, slowly but surely. I'm really getting solid at pulling half guard to lock down, but that's where it ends. I'm stuck. They hold my gi and typically keep my shoulders flat. I've usually got my double under hooks and get on a hip, but they will grab my gi and pin my top half down. It's a stall that usually goes in their favor. I'm not trying to transition to anything else because I really want to focus on one thing at a time. Right now it's just half guard game. So I get it that if its not working try something else, but I am stubborn and prefer to keep attacking with it until I figure out a way to make it work. What do you suggest?

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One thing I'll say that I might get some flack for on here is the one downside of playing lockdown in the gi is that it's easier to get stuck. So one thing about the lockdown that's really powerful is that you're doing what the name says. You're locking them down. The other half of that coin is that by its nature, the lockdown half is one of the less mobile guards. In nogi it's not as noticeable, because if they can't underhook you, unless their overhook is out of this world, it's hard to keep you entirely stuck. In the gi it's easier to get you stuck flat with the extra grips. It may seem like a bad thing when I say the lockdown cuts down on your mobility, but the flip side is that it gives you a ton of control over your opponent, which is awesome. Everything has its pros and cons I guess.

With the gi, by getting your double unders and your lockdown, there's more friction on the legs, and they also can untuck your top-side lapel and use it as a "brabo" grip, which can set up the brabo choke/baseball choke, but it also serves as an underhook. it does the exact same thing, but they don't need to actually get their arm under your armpit.

That brabo grip is incredibly tough to deal with, and since you're playing so tight to them with the lockdown, it's a hard grip to break, because you can't really let go over your underhooks. It might be less of a stall than you think. It could be that they're setting up a brabo or baseball choke, but don't have the skill or the right positioning to get out of your lockdown. or it could be that they're trying to "cook you" or grind you out until you let go, because the lockdown is really frustrating to pass in the gi, and the brabo grip is such a powerful control.

My advice would be to try to get your double unders a little faster, and maybe get more on your side than usual, if that's possible. it may feel like you're going almost face down, but it's sometimes needed to prevent them from having access to your lapel. If they do get the grip, it might be best to go to another half guard game, get their grip off, and then go back to it. if it were me, I would switch to deep half guard if I was forcing myself to play a half guard game. Going to deep half takes away the power of that grip, and forces them to try to back out, or at least switch up their plan.

From there you could look to do some sweeps like the Homer Simpson, the Waiter, or the Leg Lever out the back. Or, you could just swing back out from under them and go to the lockdown again. it might be helpful to try drilling transitions from the lockdown, to the deep half, and back again.

If you want to keep your lockdown and still do a deep half entry type of motion, you can probably electric chair sweep them. it might take a little more power on it to get through their lapel/collar grip, but you can do that also.

This might not be the exact answer you were looking for, and as someone that did nogi for a long time before gi, I know how frustrating it is. I have a feeling I may have done a bad job on this but I hope this helps!

Thanks Mike Nall, I completely get what your saying. Thanks for the info. Deep half is another part of my game I need to learn. I understand the concept and have tested it out a few times but it's not natural for me yet due to lack of reps. With an instructor who more or less is only teaching escapes from half guard and zero offensive, it's going to be hard to get the reps in.

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Originally Posted by ErikLavigne

With an instructor who more or less is only teaching escapes from half guard and zero offensive, it's going to be hard to get the reps in.

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Well... this is an opportunity for him and anyone else to practice their half-guard escapes on you then :)

By the way, props to you for being stubborn about this. Your previous thread when you discussed your instructor's attitude to half-guard would have been enough for most guys to simply switch to whatever he was trying to teach. But in your case you seem to have dug in your heels and decided to work half-guard anyway.

I like your style :)

With that said, this instructor probably does have a lot to show you. Make sure not to overlook the opportunities to learn from someone's strengths. If he's got great passing, you'll probably lean more from him about passing than you will from charting your own territory in his gym being the only guy doing halfguard.

I absolutely listen to his instruction, but when it's time to roll I just do what comes natural.
If I can work in the lesson for the day, I will try. However, how I get to the lesson that day is entirely up to me once we start to roll.