I can't compare myself to Garry Tonon...or anyone near that level. To me it's just being in those positions 1000 times versus 100 times and really knowing your body.
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I can't compare myself to Garry Tonon...or anyone near that level. To me it's just being in those positions 1000 times versus 100 times and really knowing your body.
I get your point and I made that point too. But Jacare knew he wasn't getting out of that armbar and let Roger break his arm. He was not gonna tap. Vinny Mag pretty much said he wasn't gonna tap. The importance of the competition plays a role in these guys decision to tap or hold out a bit longer....or just let it break.
In my opinion it's all about knowing the moves and knowing your body. If I am caught in a submission that i'm very familiar with it'll be harder to finish me with it, as I know what it takes to finish that submission and where I should be defending/moving/etc. If I am caught in a completely unfamiliar submission and all I know is that it hurts like fuck and it's getting worse, i'll tap early before I find out how bad it can get.
I figure tap early in the laboratory for sure. (When training at your home club)
Tournaments are a different animal because of adrenaline.
Adrenaline can get you through some pretty aggressively bad spots, but it can also result in dislocations etc.
I have a bad left shoulder. The minute a guy sinks a Kimura grip and I know I can't defend it, I verbally tap. But that is because my shoulder is in bad shape. If they catch me in a triangle, I will struggle and resist and try to weasle out of it right up until things are starting to fade to black.
I rolled a guy in the last tournament I competed in, and got him locked up in electric chair twice. He refused to tap, based on adrenaline, and I lost on points.
The guy was all pissed off and shooting me dirty looks after our match because "I hurt his leg". Fuck him. He should have tapped. He robbed me of a legit sub, because of adrenaline and stubbornness, so I have no remorse for his injury BECAUSE once I had the "fit" for the sub (He was locked in), I knew he was not escaping and I put the pressure on slowly and in a controlled fashion giving him LOTS of time to submit. And he wouldn't.
Since that tourney I have been focusing on blood chokes.
You'll get a better feel with more experience. With joint locks I always tap pretty early. I'd never do what Tonon did there outside of an event like ADCC or a paid MMA fight. With chokes it's a little different, and you can resist a lot of chokes for longer than you think. Some people think tapping early means as soon as you feel any pressure, and that can be frustrating as the person doing to move, because you want to be able to actually put some pressure on a choke or get some extension on an armbar. But then on that armbar example, in a competition it might be smart to tap as soon as your grip breaks, because they're going hard and if you wait until you feel pain your arm might already be getting injured.
I usually try to ride out chokes longer as a rule. And sadly I do probably fight off joint locks when I get caught by lower belts for longer than I should, but I still always tap before I get hurt.
Leglocks are tricky too because heel hooks and even sometimes toe holds don't always hurt very much, and the damage can even happen before you feel any pain. So when I get put in heel hooks I just tap. Catch and release style. I might resist heel hooks a tiny bit against black belts or people that I know won't injure me, but that list of trusted people is very small.
Great idea. You'll not have to feel bad for hurting anyone, and if someone is stubborn they'll just go out and the match will stop, Check Jacare letting his arm break against Roger Gracie in 2004. Jacare let his arm break so he could escape and continue the match and he won the gold medal on points. if Roger had a choke on, and Jacare went to sleep, the match would've been over.