Palhares vs. Shields - WSOF

[Axel NL]

how long do you hold onto kimuras after someone taps? Have you ever been kicked out of a gym for constantly injuring people? I disagree. If no one knew who he was, I still think people would complain about how long he held it. He was tapped by the opponent, tapped and verbally informed by the ref, and even had his arms yanked to stop the sub. He let go when he wanted to let go. And that was well after Shields tapped. Unless you suck at jiu jitsu and don't know what a tap feels like, we all know what a tap feels like. And it's really not that hard to let go. Especially when a ref jumps in.

He could let the kimura go earlier, but I don't think he should react on the tap of his opponent. Some time ago I let go a submission immediatly once my opponent tapped and the referee said he didn't tap. He didn't even ask my opponent, so I had to start all over. He should only leave the submission when the referee tells him to, especially at this level with all the risks involved. This isn't training.

[Brent Smith]

That's happened many times too but the difference here is as soon as the ref touches you, you're safe to let go.

[David Rosado]

I'm not some BJJ savant, but I believe the solution is simple. You hold the sub. You don't crank it. In other words, if you feel a tap, just hold it. Don't keep cranking it. Check with the opponent and the ref if it's a tap. If not, crank again and get the tap.

But I mean, what excuse do we have for him still cranking after the ref is literally peeling him off? The ref didn't see the tap?

[Chris Herzog]

I'm not some BJJ savant, but I believe the solution is simple. You hold the sub. You don't crank it. In other words, if you feel a tap, just hold it. Don't keep cranking it. Check with the opponent and the ref if it's a tap. If not, crank again and get the tap.

But I mean, what excuse do we have for him still cranking after the ref is literally peeling him off? The ref didn't see the tap?

Worst solution ever as that's when escapes will happen. You apply pressure until the referee stops you.

That being said, this was beyond referee intervention, as many other stoppages he has been involved in.

[John Mejia]

Worst solution ever as that's when escapes will happen. You apply pressure until the referee stops you.

That being said, this was beyond referee intervention, as many other stoppages he has been involved in.

I agree, But I feel the Ref tapping you on the back saying stop stop stop shouldn't apply here. I think referee's should get in between the two fighters (obv easier said than done), especially when the tap occurs. It shouldn't be a passive thing like (hey buddy thats enough) it should be like prying two dogs off each other. Just my opinion though.

Palhares should be banned for the eye gouges or at least suspended

[Arman Fathi]

It shouldn't be a passive thing like (hey buddy thats enough) it should be like prying two dogs off each other.

That's a perfect analogy. I recall one of Ronda Rousey's fights (I think against Liz Carmouche?) that when Ronda had her in an armbar, right when Liz tapped, John McCarthey dove in and completely pried off/discombobulated the armbar. It was a fine job, I thought. To be fair though, Ronda cooperated the second the ref intervened. Mazzegatti probably coulda done more to intervene than just slapping Hoozeemar on the shoulder, but even still, Paul Harris knew he had it and still held it for a second or two after Mazzegatti intervened (if you could call it that).

[Gary Meek]

I agree that the Ref should apply some sort of assistance in saving the limb, but you also open them up to jacking it up even worse depending on the situation and position of the Ref. Regardless, he's a repeat offender and if not banned, he should be fined significantly.

[Mojoplata]

Paulhares clearly does not have the mental capacity to be allowed to compete in MMA. Remember his super strange fight with Marquardt where he basically let himself get TKO'd? That was right after the Drwal heel hook. Now this. Eye gouges are no joke. Have him fight Yvel or Gordeau if he insists on competing. That Belcher fight is a great re-watch after he pulls this kind of stuff.

That will always be my favorite fight

[Mario Lopez Alvarez]

Ideally you should be able to let go when he taps BEFORE the ref stops you, and the other guy just goes on his honor. Worst case they have an instant replay. But im sure that's easier said than done

[Arman Fathi]

Ideally you should be able to let go when he taps BEFORE the ref stops you, and the other guy just goes on his honor. Worst case they have an instant replay. But im sure that's easier said than done

Alas, in a perfect world....

Something I didn't even think about is the fact that Palhares is a Murilo Bustamante black belt. Why is this relevant? Recall UFC 37, Bustamante vs. Matt Lindland and the infamous "double-tap" incident. In summary, Bustamante had a fully applied armbar, Lindland tapped, Bustamante let go, the ref didn't see the tap, Lindland kept going (lack of honor), and Bustamante was incredibly butt hurt. He ended up catching Lindland in a guillotine later, regardless. Now for all we know, he's told this story to Palhares countless times over the years they've trained together. For all we know, Murilo told Palhares that when he fights, never let go even if the guy taps, until the ref literally pries you off.

Who's to say that this isn't the root cause of why Palhares holds submissions too long? You'd think after all the suspensions, bad press, fines, etc. Palhares would've figured it out by now. But if he's got his Master's story stuck in his brain, the guy he learned everything from, I mean....crazier things have happened.