Side control question: Ascending to shoulder line from hip line?

[Pan]

I use sweeps from dog fight a lot with and without the gi. I have great success with them but often find that I end up in side control with control of my opponent's hips instead of his/her neck/shoulder line. I often end up a bit 'stuck' there getting pushed away and don't have a great plan of attack for how to move higher and get control of the neck.


Any help would be appreciated =)
Pan

[Aiseop]

I love these types of questions. It's thinking about jiu-jitsu conceptually, something that Nic Gregroriades covers in his book, The Black Belt Blueprint. I don't have it with me, but one way he put it was that if you are locking his hips, then all he has is his shoulders and arms. You still have the advantage of having your own shoulder arms and hips legs to control him. Of course, your own shoulder is engaged at his hips, so you have to release them to put them in a 2 vs 1 play (your shoulder/hips vs his shoulders - as you are past his hips).

I don't mind staying down there, if they insist. Ever since I found the truck entries from there, I have been even more comfortable there (there being low, reverse kesa or twister side control). Mount is very easy when they are worried about you wrapping up their legs. And, after I have been looking at Zog's Russian Cowboy series, if your school allows you to attack leglocks, that's another excellent option.

If you want to go to standard side control or kesa (judo side), then what I do is deflect their push either high or low. It locks their arms, occupies them against my torso, so that I can "switch" my hips first to face him, locking his own torso, then it's a "hand-fight" to get my arms around the head and arm. The key for me here is to NOT engage in that "win-chun" hand fight without having my hip weight on his chest, facing his head. If I try fighting his arms without enough control, then it becomes a scramble, and I lose the position, ending up in half-guard or even full.

Hope this makes sense. I recommend Nic's book because of it's conceptual approach. It's excellent for those seeking "the larger picture" as opposed to specific techniques.

[Pan]

Thanks for your answer, dude.

Is this the kind of thing you're talking about? At about 4:00 he mentions going past the rungs of the ladder including moving from hips to shoulders.



I definitely understand the idea of moving past certain lines/rungs but just noticed recently that my hip line to shoulder line transitions were total guess work.

[Arman Fathi]

I love these types of questions. It's thinking about jiu-jitsu conceptually, something that Nic Gregroriades covers in his book, The Black Belt Blueprint. I don't have it with me, but one way he put it was that if you are locking his hips, then all he has is his shoulders and arms. You still have the advantage of having your own shoulder arms and hips legs to control him. Of course, your own shoulder is engaged at his hips, so you have to release them to put them in a 2 vs 1 play (your shoulder/hips vs his shoulders - as you are past his hips).

I don't mind staying down there, if they insist. Ever since I found the truck entries from there, I have been even more comfortable there (there being low, reverse kesa or twister side control). Mount is very easy when they are worried about you wrapping up their legs. And, after I have been looking at Zog's Russian Cowboy series, if your school allows you to attack leglocks, that's another excellent option.

If you want to go to standard side control or kesa (judo side), then what I do is deflect their push either high or low. It locks their arms, occupies them against my torso, so that I can "switch" my hips first to face him, locking his own torso, then it's a "hand-fight" to get my arms around the head and arm. The key for me here is to NOT engage in that "win-chun" hand fight without having my hip weight on his chest, facing his head. If I try fighting his arms without enough control, then it becomes a scramble, and I lose the position, ending up in half-guard or even full.

Hope this makes sense. I recommend Nic's book because of it's conceptual approach. It's excellent for those seeking "the larger picture" as opposed to specific techniques.

Awesome post. The detail of deflecting their push high and low are huge...definitely gotta try that. But it does seem like you'd end up in twister side control, so there is that whole sequence.

[Apperz]

Rafa Mendes says the same thing as above. If you control the hips and meet resistance don't worry about it - clamp down (he uses shoulder pressure and both elbows outside the hips with a drive of the toes, always keeping the head up) and wait it out. If at any point you need to re-stabilise then walk back towards the hips and only once you are confident you won't get bumped off or lose the position do you work your way up for the cross-face.

If you are a member of 'Art of JiuJitsu' there are four techniques (across 2 videos) on doing this for No Gi 'Stabilising the No Gi Guard Pass in Side Control' I think the first and most useful is called.

[Aiseop]

Yes, that video gets at Gregoriades' conceptual approach. In another video (accessed it you purchase the book, online) is where he talks about the whole using the fact that you are outnumbering him in rungs (so to speak) and if he's intent on blocking your shoulders, then your hips, leg, hell, even knees are free. There's an old comp vid out there of Cyborg where he's facing a guy who's completely blocking his side control (head and arm) and Cyborb jumps to knee on belly with the right knee, then knee-on-neck! He used that knee-on-neck as a paper cutter (or bread cutter) choke to tap the dude out. Excellent thread, guys.

[Apperz]

Yes, that video gets at Gregoriades' conceptual approach. In another video (accessed it you purchase the book, online) is where he talks about the whole using the fact that you are outnumbering him in rungs (so to speak) and if he's intent on blocking your shoulders, then your hips, leg, hell, even knees are free. There's an old comp vid out there of Cyborg where he's facing a guy who's completely blocking his side control (head and arm) and Cyborb jumps to knee on belly with the right knee, then knee-on-neck! He used that knee-on-neck as a paper cutter (or bread cutter) choke to tap the dude out. Excellent thread, guys.

I have his book, but can't find this video. What page is the link on? :-)