BJJ Point Question

[Jared Gammel]

In the last tournament I was in, I felt that two of my matches were scored wrong. This may be something that people experience in smaller tournaments where not all referees are as proficient as the staple refs at GQ.

People can share whatever experiences they've had with the point system here.

I felt that I benefited from poor scoring in one match and lost because of it in another.

My question, and I'm still a beginner compared to many here, is: If someone pulls half-guard and the competitor in the top position passes to side control, that should not be awarded points for a pass, is this correct? My understanding was that a pass had to be from full/butterfly/or open guard, am I completely wrong here? Whatever the reality of the rules are I know this brought confusion at the last local tournament I was at. Thanks everyone.

[Joseph Connolly]

This is one of my big pet peeves with tourneys, I don't understand the points at all, and when you are competing it is hard to tell if you got something. Especially if you are trying to win and not just scored points. In one of my last matches the score was 12-2 and I didn't even know who had the 12. (it was me, but i couldn't figure out how)

[Hector Ramos]

You should get points if you pass from half guard to side. Because you are still passing the guard whether it be full half rubber butterfly.

[VJ Bella]

What Dante said....anytime you go from a guard position to side control you should get the points for the pass...doesn't matter the type of guard. You need to secure side control though (usually for 3 seconds)if you pass and the guy goes turtle to his knees you get no points. Likewise...If your on half guard bottom and sweep to half guard top you get points.

[Jared Gammel]

What Dante said....anytime you go from a guard position to side control you should get the points for the pass...doesn't matter the type of guard. You need to secure side control though (usually for 3 seconds)if you pass and the guy goes turtle to his knees you get no points. Likewise...If your on half guard bottom and sweep to half guard top you get points.

I know logically this makes the most sense, I agree. However, my instructor was fairly adamant that that is not the official position of the rules. He could be completely wrong mind you. But does anyone know that you get points for a pass from half-guard for certain, or if this could vary depending on organization rules?

edit** For example take the case where someone is in side-control and feeds their leg back into half-guard only to repeatedly pull it out.. Do they get 3 points every time they do this? What about quarter guard? I know it seems obvious, but I'm curious if anyone knows the official ruling on these things?

I thought I remembered Eddie saying that was a reason he pulled half guard, in some video. I could be completely imagining that though.

[Ryan Cook]

What is the website for the tournament? Also, the example you provided about putting the leg in quarter guard only to pass again usually does not yield points (at least it hasn't in any of the tournaments I've been in). However, I did see one of Marcelo's matches where he did exactly that because he wasn't sure on the points and wanted to add a few just to be sure he would win. Now if you're opponent hip escapes and regains quarter guard on his own, that should definitely be scored. They still probably wouldn't score it multiple times though. That would be douchey. It would be like going from side control to knee on belly and back a bunch of times. That doesn't show progression to a more dominant position and is not really in the spirit of Jiu Jitsu.

[Jared Gammel]

What is the website for the tournament? Also, the example you provided about putting the leg in quarter guard only to pass again usually does not yield points (at least it hasn't in any of the tournaments I've been in). However, I did see one of Marcelo's matches where he did exactly that because he wasn't sure on the points and wanted to add a few just to be sure he would win. Now if you're opponent hip escapes and regains quarter guard on his own, that should definitely be scored. They still probably wouldn't score it multiple times though. That would be douchey. It would be like going from side control to knee on belly and back a bunch of times. That doesn't show progression to a more dominant position and is not really in the spirit of Jiu Jitsu.

I agree with everything you said. It would be similar to the knee on belly example you gave. The tournament doesn't have a website that I'm aware of, it was supposedly IBJJF rules. I went on the site and couldn't find a definitive answer to my question really.

edit* ok found this..

" The athlete cannot have score new points when he is in a position where he recieved points previously, changes position intentionally and returns to the same position."

So that answers that. Now the only question is if points are awarded for the first half-guard pass? Because if they are, and the person recovers half-guard from side-control, subsequent passes aren't awarded points, yes?

[Hector Ramos]

Scoring

* Takedown or Throw = 2 points
* Sweep = 2 points
* Pass opponent’s guard = 3 points
* Mounted position = 4 points
* Back Mount with Hooks in = 4 points
* Back Mount knees on ground, opponent flat on stomach = 4 points (Additional 4 points are scored by putting the hooks in from this position)
* Body triangle from the back = 4 points
* Knee on stomach = 2 points

1) To gain points for a position, the competitor must show clear control for 3 seconds (including takedowns and throws).
2) Advantages are used as a tiebreaker. The referee will score advantages in the event of a near submission or score (near takedown, near guard pass, etc).
3) No Stalling: Referee will issue warnings for the 1st offense of stalling (i.e. backing out of the guard without engaging, hugging the opponent’s hips inside the guard, backing away from the opponent out of bounds, etc). A 2nd offense will result in an advantage for the staller’s opponent. A 3rd offense will result in a 2 point deduction. A 4th offense will result in a disqualification.
4) If a competitor flees the ring to avoid a takedown and it is obvious that the competitor is going to be taken down, his or her opponent will be awarded two points.
5) There are no points for reversals. It is a person’s obligation to escape a bad position (mount, rear mount, or side control). No points are awarded for these escapes.

This is the web site with the official rules usually used by every tourney unless it says so http://www.usgrappling.us/rules/

[Jared Gammel]

Those rules look similar to IBJJF.

It seems like there should be some official referees on the board. Somebody should know these things for certain, unless nobody really cares what the rules are since they're to busy going for subs.