Popovitch: Gi is boring, I don't like it, No-gi is a better Sport

[Aiseop]

Of course, I 100% agree that the appeal to authority is non-persuasive on this topic.

I'll wait to agree until Eddie chimes in.

[Jack Hanley]

I'm just going to relay my personal experience as it applies. Keep in mind I am in a very isolated market, and teach for free. After roughly 8 years mostly gi, I moved to a location with no BJJ within a 3 hour drive. I finally found a place to train at a muay thai school. Nobody was interested in doing gi stuff, so I dropped it. I had been following 10th planet since 2004 while in the gi. I had years of lockdown in the gi and a basic use and knowledge in rubber guard. I immediately dove deeper into 10th planet to keep pace with no-gi. Over the years a few gi players have moved into town, and have no choice but to do mainly no gi. Since I am very open to the gi, I always tell people that during rolling it is perfectly ok to bring gi's and roll in the gi if that is what they like. Ya know what, it almost never happens. Except for the times when one guy is preparing for Gi tournament, and some of us put on the gi to help him prepare. He brought a pile of gi's from his old gym for people to use and it still hasn't happened. Yes, we are now a hotbox, but I don't think one new person has showed up because of the hotbox, or even knowing what it is. The no-gi has taken off beyond my expectations, average class in 10-12, with some classes going into the 20's. While gi stays nearly non existent, even though we have at least 5 people with gi backgrounds and one "champion for the cause" that would love to have packed gi classes a few times a week. It is an interesting study because we are isolated and money is not a factor. It came to its present state very organically.

This is fairly similar to how it goes at my school. One difference is that we have at least four schools with gi programs very near us. We have one or two guys who previously trained in the gi and the rest were new to submission grappling when they started with us in no-gi. The vast majority of them have absolutely no desire to ever take up the gi. A huge majority of them also compete (which makes me unbelievably happy).

We do occasionally get gi guys who move into our area, drop into our school, and then decide to join somewhere else with a gi program. So, we do miss out on those guys. But, it seems like a good portion of them come often anyway to our free open mat so that they can roll with our guys in no-gi.

[Mike Nall]

As I said, I posted this because it is a sign that "[t]imes are changing when such a high level gi guy of Brazilian origin would openly say this."

I don't know of any other guys like Popovitch (gi based, Brazilian born, 5x ADCC medalist) who have ever said these kinds of things so publicly before.

I think it is a bellwether of a significant shift in perception regarding no-gi.

Of course, I 100% agree that the appeal to authority is non-persuasive on this topic.

Fair enough. I think there are a lot of Brazilian guys that really love training no-gi and are open about how much they love it. I think it's shifting also. These are just well known names too. Marcelo Garcia, Murilo Santana, Rafa Mendes, Braulio Estima, Victor Estima, Andre Galvao, Vinny Magalhaes, Caio Terra, Buchecha, Cyborg, Kron Gracie, Cobrinha, Claudio Calasans, Bruno Frazzato, Leandro Lo, Lucas Leite...

Bruno Frazzato is as good a gi guy as you'll find and think he's teaching full time at AOJ now, no-gi classes everyday on top of the advanced no-gi classes that Rafa is teaching. AOJ had daily no-gi classes, if not 2 a day, and they're as good as any academy you'll find.

The list is pretty big man. The only well known top cream of the crop Brazilian guys that I know genuinely don't really enjoy training no-gi that much are Gui Mendes (even though he's competed no-gi in the past), Michael Langhi, Bruno Malfacine, Paulo Miyao, and I can't think of many more.

I'm glad it's shifting. I'm sure there are a few guys that don't really enjoy no-gi but still do well in it. I think that list is getting smaller and smaller.

[Jack Hanley]

Yep, no-gi is an awesome sport. It's pretty hard not to like it.

I think there are two separate things going on right now:

1) There is momentum building behind no-gi as a sport, and

2) there is momentum building behind 100% no-gi training.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

There seems (to me) to be a movement of uniting all grappling sports, the gi maybe lost in this movement.
Many people seem to think;
- the gi slows grappling and makes it less entertaining to watch.
- the fact that people wear clothing does not make gi training more applicable to self defense. (and or self defense is not necessarily of paramount importance when it comes to combat sports.)
- rules sets that favor a particular grappling tradition are not as interesting a venue as those that have more inclusive rule sets.
- the perceived dominance of BJJ over other grappling traditions is a result of cultural, economic and historical factors rather than a testament to the superiority of the style.

IMO by;
1. being no-gi
2. creating and seeking out competition formats with inclusive rule sets
3. openly incorporating techniques from any grappling tradition

10thP is playing what will come to be seen as a historically significant role in the evolution/unification of grappling arts. I understand why it is called 10thP jiujitsu but I wish it was called 10th Planet Grappling. Think of how important techniques from wrestling, sambo, judo ect are to the 10thP system.

[Aiseop]

Jesus, guys. Judo is still HUGE in the world. Easy with the death knell of sambo, judo, and BJJ...

go easy with the confirmation bias, folks. I love no-gi. Would love to be a moon and train under it, but there's still a big, bigger market for gi. let's just go easy.

[Joshua Jarboe]

Jesus, guys. Judo is still HUGE in the world. Easy with the death knell of sambo, judo, and BJJ...

go easy with the confirmation bias, folks. I love no-gi. Would love to be a moon and train under it, but there's still a big, bigger market for gi. let's just go easy.

I think I agree. Some people want to play chess. Some people want to play speed chess. You're going to have to have a pretty good argument to show that speed-chess is going to totally replace the chess that people have been playing for a long time (which can take hours).

I suspect that time pressure adds something to any game.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

I can't speak for everyone but the changes to the rules in Judo have made me lose interest as a spectator. This is a widespread opinion amongst judo fans.

I dont believe we see it as a "death knell", more of an evolution or decrease in gi popularity, sambo techniques are increasingly represented in grappling competition in the US and the value of judo techniques (gi or not) is increasingly well respected. We want a diversity in grappling because that is the origin of diversification in technique. But it must be accompanied by a decrease in the dominance of BJJ biased rules sets. We want an increase in viewership for grappling sports but think that the gi will have to go in order for that to happen.

As of now the overwhelming majority of vehicles are powered by gas engines, would that make any opinion that the future of vehicles is likely to be with a different powerplant confirmation bias; simply because most of us would like to see the change? There is still a bigger market for gas powered cars after all.

I think we can point to many indicators that there is a movement in the grappling community away from the dominance of the gi (not a death of gi sports). As of now, grappling sports with the gi are far more popular worldwide (in the US wrestling is pretty big as grappling goes, much more widely practiced than judo ect) that is not evidence that a change is not wanted or happening.

Unification through diversification.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

I think I agree. Some people want to play chess. Some people want to play speed chess. You're going to have to have a pretty good argument to show that speed-chess is going to totally replace the chess that people have been playing for a long time (which can take hours).

I suspect that time pressure adds something to any game.

Why is it a matter of replacement, couldnt speed chess become more popular while traditional chess still exist? I dont see anyone here claiming that all gi sports will die in favor of no-gi.

Several problem with the analogy of speed chess to no-gi.

[Jack Hanley]

There seems (to me) to be a movement of uniting all grappling sports, the gi maybe lost in this movement.
Many people seem to think;
- the gi slows grappling and makes it less entertaining to watch.
- the fact that people wear clothing does not make gi training more applicable to self defense. (and or self defense is not necessarily of paramount importance when it comes to combat sports.)
- rules sets that favor a particular grappling tradition are not as interesting a venue as those that have more inclusive rule sets.
- the perceived dominance of BJJ over other grappling traditions is a result of cultural, economic and historical factors rather than a testament to the superiority of the style.

IMO by;
1. being no-gi
2. creating and seeking out competition formats with inclusive rule sets
3. openly incorporating techniques from any grappling tradition

10thP is playing what will come to be seen as a historically significant role in the evolution/unification of grappling arts. I understand why it is called 10thP jiujitsu but I wish it was called 10th Planet Grappling. Think of how important techniques from wrestling, sambo, judo ect are to the 10thP system.

I think there is a lot of truth here. Submission Grappling is way more than just BJJ, and it seems like everything is going in a much more inclusive direction where "submission grappling" or "grappling" may become the primary label/umbrella concept instead of the more specific "jiu-jitsu".

This is already reflected in the name of the most prestigious event in unjacketed submission grappling: the "Abu Dhabi Combat Club Submission Fighting Championship". ADCC is not a "jiu-jitsu" tournament. It is a "submission fighting" tournament.