Seeking advice for my daughter.

[Neil Kiernan]

This is a whole nother topic. All we should be worried about is fixing her immediate problem.

You did bring up the sex and muscular development issue in your initial post, so thats why it digressed off topic.

Fact is a superior technical girl will run circles around all but the most elite of men. Will she be div 1? Maybe not. Will she be able to beat most men and damn near all women? Hell yeah. Just steer her down the most technical path. Above all else, technical proficiency reigns. More than strength, stamina, flexibility, .. everything.

Thank you.

Technical solutions are what I am looking for. The poster I was replying to seemed to think that the issue was that I am so stupid as to allow my daughter to compete with boys in the first place.

The technical solutions I have been offered so far consist of first fixing a couple of key mistakes she makes during her stand up escapes, and perhaps to look into other escapes like Granby Rolls, Peterson Rolls, etc that don't rely so much on simply pushing up against someone who is trying to push you down.

[Peterm]

Aaron,

You may be right in that you have to compete successfully to attract students so none else is likely to have the opportunity.
In so far as it holds true of any sport that you don’t have to be good at it to coach the explanation may be that some sports may have simpler technical requirements to impart and some top level coaches may be superior in areas such as motivation and tactics, their athletes/students possibly having learned technique under other coaches at an earlier age.

[Peterm]

Bobby,

I really don’t think that in wrestling it plays out the way that you seem to think.

I do agree with you that the emphasis of training should be on technical proficiency but technique does not exist in a physical vacuum in wrestling or any other sports.

Regardless of technical proficiency you do not find male/female equality in sports such as athletics or swimming where performance can be measured or in more technical sports such as tennis which has huge female participation and you will certainly not find it in a sport such as wrestling where a man’s superior attributes have to be dealt with directly.
We have had experience of this in judo for years. You would be wrong to think that a superior technical girl of even Olympic level will run rings around average male competitors at a decent club certainly not in Europe or Japan.

[bobby rivers]

Thats only at elite levels man. So if you take an elite female, and put her in an average skilled male weight class. She could compete.

I agree that women can not compete with elite men, but that is irrelevant in helping Neil's daughter get better at wrestling. Just saying focus on the art and not the comp.

[Peterm]

Neil

I did not say that you were stupid although as a parent of two girls now older than yours I do not share your views about mixed sex competition.

Obviously if you feel disinclined to engage with someone who does not share your views then I cannot change that.

However what I said was that “it is fanciful to imagine that they will remain competitive as they age and meet fully matured boys who will present overwhelming advantages that cannot be overcome”

You might like to set out your position in case I have misunderstood it but it may be that your view is that:

There are physical differences betwen boys and girls especially after puberty but they can be overcome by a sufficiently high level of technique.

If you think that girls should be able to compete with boys on principle then I can understand that although I am not sure that many women wrestlers would wish it or would be happy about not having the ability to compete in their own championships.

If on the other hand you think that women would be able to be competitive with men at the highest level given adequate technique then we part views. They have not done it in other sports where physical performance from running fast to lifting weight can be measured and the differences are obvious and insuperable. They cannot do it in more technical sports and they have absolutely no chance of doing it in a sport where a man’s physical attributes will be confronted directly, technical proficiency notwithstanding. I do not see what is “crass” about that.

There are weight divisions for good reason. There are gender divisions for good reason. Regardless of our opinions your daughter will not have the opportunity to wrestle men competitively at the highest level but neither in my opinion should you want her to do so.

On another note I remain intrigued about the world's best "non wrestling" wrestling coach as it is a part of the conundrum about successful performers and unsuccessful coaches. In truth however I suspect that it will turn out to be an urban myth and you will be hard pressed to come up with a successful wrestling coach who has not competed let alone not wrestled.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

Aaron,

You may be right in that you have to compete successfully to attract students so none else is likely to have the opportunity.
In so far as it holds true of any sport that you don’t have to be good at it to coach the explanation may be that some sports may have simpler technical requirements to impart and some top level coaches may be superior in areas such as motivation and tactics, their athletes/students possibly having learned technique under other coaches at an earlier age.

I think you are right. Grappling is all technical knowledge and less team strategy and management compared to most other sports.

[John Mejia]

Thats only at elite levels man. So if you take an elite female, and put her in an average skilled male weight class. She could compete.

I agree that women can not compete with elite men, but that is irrelevant in helping Neil's daughter get better at wrestling. Just saying focus on the art and not the comp.

Agreed Bobby,

Although I think there are outliers in this (Gabi Garcia, Kayla Harrison, etc) the elite female will probably not beat the elite male. However an Elite female can defeat most men within reason.

Now in the case of a girls vs. boys in wrestling. I do think there are ways to continue to have success through technique up until the collegiate level. I think alot of it has to do with strategy. Outside shot's, ankle picks, Low Singles, Duck unders/flyby's etc. I think anytime she can get most of her body to control a limb, or attack at an angle will give her success. Gabby Bella, Alexis Hamilton, Kyra Batara have had some great success for their respective wrestling teams. I think if her wrestling technique is crisp she will be successful in the grappling arts no matter what.

[Peterm]

Bobby,

Are you saying from your experience that that holds true in wrestling or Judo or both?

In my view put a female in a men's weight bracket and she will be seriously disadvantaged to the extent that I cannot see an international standard women wrestler or judoka being able to compete successfully at a national level men's event.

I have nothing against Neil improving his daughter's technical ability and applaud him for doing so. In a nutshell however I do hink that there is a technical solution to male physical superiority and organised sport agrees.

[bobby rivers]

What im saying is, that an olympic medaling women's judoka or wrestler. Could clean up at a mens blue belt division or a local wrestling clup within her weight class.

Im also saying that this isnt the point of the convo. After puberty their should be no mixed comp. Given.

What I saw in those matches wasnt being overpowered but a technical superiority by the boy. But yes, to beat someone who is stronger and more athletic, you have to be waaaay better technically. If theyre just as good and stronger and more athletic, then it comes to your point of men having a natural advantage, and a huge one.

[Kurzy]

Gabby Bella, Alexis Hamilton, Kyra Batara have had some great success for their respective wrestling teams. I think if her wrestling technique is crisp she will be successful in the grappling arts no matter what.

Good call John.
Neil Kiernan, Kyra Batara is an excellent example. You could contact her on facebook and I know she would be happy to share training tips and ideas with you. She is super friendly. She is a young lady who trains hard and wins against young men.