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  1. #1

    Array

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    The Forge BJJ
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    Oklahoma City
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    773

    lockdown on a whitebelt is a submission?

    Because I'm so new to JJ, and not even allowed to spar yet, I haven't even mentioned 10p systems in class yet. I'm just keeping my mouth shut and learning whatever they are teaching. Mostly basic armbars, mount escapes, lapel chokes, etc. But at home I've been researching 10p system extensively, practicing on a grapping dummy, and preparing my secret weapons for when they let me roll with other whitebelts.

    Mostly at home I've been looking at RG. My girlfriend is a pretty good sport and she lets me put her in RG so I can understand how it feels with a human in there, instead of that stupid grappling dummy. She's a good sport about this stuff and I get at least a few reps of MC, zombie, NY, CD, IC, KF, Gogo.. these positions feel amazing and I feel almost no pulling on my hip thanks to years and years of TKD flexibility.

    Tonight I wanted to put her in a lockdown, something I can't really do on the dummy because it's legs are too short and bend in unnatural ways. I've never put it on another human, and I wanted to just feel it. So she gets into my half guard, I triangle my knee, and try to extend my legs. My leg is on the wrong side of hers and it doesn't work, so we start experimenting. Once I flip that leg over the other side, her eyes get big a saucers and she starts tapping like crazy. I'm kinda shocked because I'm applying at most 20% pressure, and it doesn't hurt me at all... but she's seriously uncomfortable.

    Now my girlfriend is the soft-sensitive type, so her tapping from 20% lockdown pressure isn't surprising. So I want to feel it myself. So we flip over and I show her how to put it on me. Again it takes us a second to get her leg around mine the correct way, but once she gets it I start feeling the pressure. It's uncomfortable, but certainly not anything that makes me tap. Then she adjusts it some more and slides her legs down on mine lower and it starts to hurt quite a bit. I tell her to squeeze it hard as she can. She adjusts her leg a little more and squeezes with everything she's got. It fucking hurts. She's apparently in no pain at all because she's smiling at me with the kind of grin your kids get when they find the cookie jar.

    My question is, how common is it to tap out a whitebelt with just a lockdown? That shit really hurts and my guess is that people who are not yet fully adjusted to being uncomfortable may just give up right there. Is this common?

    Does the fact that my legs are super skinny have anything to do with it? Because I have very little meat on the bone, I'm all pointy and sharp. I'm wondering if that is part of what's going on?

    Another slightly unrelated question. I find that when I put her in a triangle, my legs are so damn skinny it's not really even a choke. I'm pulling her head down and there's clearly a lot of pressure on her, but I'm not sure I could actually put her to sleep with it. Triangles are coming up in the curriculum in another couple months for me, so I'll be able to explore this in class, but figured I would ask here.

  2. #2

    Array

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    Dark Horse SWA\10th Planet Bear DE
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    715
    It's rare that someone taps from it. . I've maybe gotten 10 taps total and I've been using it 11 years exclusively. It can be painful an depending on the angle it can cause knee damage but it's very rare.

  3. #3

    Array

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    10th Planet Fairfield
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    519
    Tapping happens, but it's more of either a shin to shin pain thing or a panic tap because the leg is, er, well, locked down and they think you're about to break something.

    someone once said that there's a knee bar there but i can't see it nor do it.

  4. #4
    HerbChao's Avatar
    Array

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    Aspiring 10th Planet Fans/Alpha Tae Kwon Do
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    New England
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    999
    someone once said that there's a knee bar there but i can't see it nor do it.
    I've seen a kneebar variation from top (after u sweep over from HG). I've been able to hit it drilling but have never pulled or tried to pull it off live, I usually for for either the EC sweep pass, or go from top stoner control to vaporizer.

  5. #5
    Nick Paul's Avatar
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    Cristiano Ribeiro BJJ/ 10P Chicago
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    Rockford, IL
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    371
    There's a really lanky kid at my gym with strong legs and sharp shins and the way he turns into lockdown its almost like a calf slicer. He's tapped a few guys with just a squeeze. The weird thing is hes a beginner like 6 months in but he can generate some wicked pressure on the calf and shin with it. Which I really dont understand

  6. #6

    Array

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    The Forge BJJ
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    Oklahoma City
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    773
    oooh shit. I think I was doing it wrong. I think I was actually doing a reverse lockdown? My outside leg was under the knee of my inside leg. Is that a reverse lockdown? Everything I'm finding on youtube is more advanced stuff like transitions and positions long past the lockdown.

    Everyone keeps talking about shin to shin, but that's not what was happening with me. I think I had it reversed.

    I have a RG book and DVD set on the way. Should I be getting the twister stuff too?

    I've looked at several of the MTS videos. They are fun and great, but the actual amount of direct technique explanation in them is a small %. Plus most of it is more advanced than I'm ready for.

    Hrm...

  7. #7

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    Carlson Gracie Miami/10P Miami/Ft. Laud Hotbox remnant
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    Miami
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    2,465
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Murray View Post
    Another slightly unrelated question. I find that when I put her in a triangle, my legs are so damn skinny it's not really even a choke. I'm pulling her head down and there's clearly a lot of pressure on her, but I'm not sure I could actually put her to sleep with it. Triangles are coming up in the curriculum in another couple months for me, so I'll be able to explore this in class, but figured I would ask here.


    Next time try this and let us know how it goes good sir. And <3 your gf for being such a great sport. I'd reward her with a nice home cooked meal if I were you so she gets something out of it too, assuming you can cook, if not a nice dinner would be nice. Most people wouldn't like to just get put into death moves just for the hell of it, let alone the gentle soft types. Just a suggestion.

  8. #8

    Array

    School
    The Forge BJJ
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    773

  9. #9

    Array

    School
    The Forge BJJ
    Location
    Oklahoma City
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    773
    Quote Originally Posted by Enrique "Kiko" View Post
    Next time try this and let us know how it goes good sir.
    This Triangle video is fucking awesome, thank you so much Kiko! I totally get it. Feels much much different for me after turning.

  10. #10

    Array

    School
    Carlson Gracie Miami/10P Miami/Ft. Laud Hotbox remnant
    Location
    Miami
    Posts
    2,465
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Murray View Post
    This Triangle video is fucking awesome, thank you so much Kiko! I totally get it. Feels much much different for me after turning.
    You're welcome =D

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