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  1. #41
    Eddie Bravo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SebG View Post
    LuT, I apologise if you feel I have misquoted you. We can discuss this in the forum or PM if you wish.

    I confess to being somewhat disappointed. No hard-ons on this side of the keyboard though. I am disappointed because I thought you are actually interested in facts. Now it appears you show that you are not.

    If you have explained anything then I must have blinked and missed it. All we have from you is snide hints about non-Euclidean geometry. But no explanation.

    Mainstream science explains everything about a globe Earth in a consistent and logical way. Many of these phenomena can be investigated by high school students or anyone with an ounce of will and effort. A few are listed below.

    By all means, be curious about the world. Question what people tell you. Question mainstream science. Do your own experiments.

    Above all, ask questions of non-globe Earthers...

    * The star field in the night sky is completely different in the northern and southern hemispheres. I live downunder and we see the "Southern Cross" (a pattern of stars). I've been to Europe and there is no Southern Cross.
    * Sunset can be seen twice at the same place on the same day - once from ground level and then again if you catch an elevator to the top of a tall building. For example, the Burj Khalifa, which is even better since there is a glass elevator and you can see the sun set, rise a bit and then set again as you travel upwards.
    * Bedford Level Experiment.
    * Foucault's Pendulum.
    * Henry Cavendish gravity experiment - this is high school level.
    * Centre of gravity of the Earth. Pulls everyone towards the Earth's centre, no matter where we are on the planet's surface. Wouldn't be the case if the Earth would be non-globe. For proof of gravity, see Cavendish experiment above.

    There are lots of others. A few more below. All of these phenomena can be tested by anyone who is interested. NONE of these phenomena are explained by non-globe Earthers of if they do it is not done in a consistent, logical way.

    * Timezones.
    * Seasons.
    * Tides.
    * Using a telescope to follow the orbit of Venus, Mars and the other planets around the sun. Cassini and others did this over 300 years ago - with far inferior telescopes to what any of us can go down the road and buy today. Those astronomers were then able to work out the distances of the planets to the sun. So as well as watching those globe-shaped planets rotate you can also work out their orbital distance from the sun.
    * Solar eclipses.
    * Lunar eclipses.
    * Magnetic compass.
    * Cosmic radiation.
    * Variation of air pressure with altitude. Wouldn't be the case if the Earth was enclosed in a dome.
    * The fact that the behaviour of a gyroscope is dependant on latitude. If one understands the Maths this is clear evidence that the Earth is round and that it rotates.
    * The Sagnac interferometer (a type of laser-based gyroscope). Same phenomenon as mechanical gyroscope.

    All of these phenomena can be tested by ANYONE who is interested. NONE of these phenomena are explained by non-globe Earthers in a consistent, logical way.

    By all means, be curious about the world. Question what people tell you. Question mainstream science. Do your own experiments.

    Above all, ask keen questions of non-globe Earthers...
    Do you believe we went to the moon?

    and do you believe there's a Tesla roadster floating in space?
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  2. #42
    Eddie,

    Absolutely.

    India, USA, USSR, japan, China, have all sent spacecraft to the moon. USSR and USa have landed spacecraft on the moon. USA have landed 12 astronauts on the moon.

    When USA and USSR went to the moon, a high school in the UK, Kettering Grammar School, monitored radio signals from the spacecraft. With weak radio signals you know where they are coming from - if the antenna's not pointed right you don't get any signal.

    Thousands of amateur astronomers and amateur radio enthusiasts have spent probably hundreds of thousands or even millions of person-hours monitoring spacecraft in orbit and beyond.

    There are retroreflectors on the moon, placed there by the astronauts and by robot in the USSR case. Not easy to power a laser that can travel 380,000km but anyone rich enough could do the experiment and get a signal bounce back from those reflectors. A number of observatories do this experiment to track the exact Earth-Moon distance much more accurately than doing it by radar.

    Science is a continual progression. Before WW2, individuals in different countries started building rockets. In WW2, these were developed as weapons of war. After WW2 the same. However, they were also developed by USSR and USA to send objects and people into orbit.

    When the USA and USSR were sworn enemies, they used radar to track where the other one was sending spacecraft. They were definitely trying to keep the other one honest.

    Have you ever looked on the App that tells you where the International Space Station is? I did last year when it was flying over Sydney. I went outside and saw it. It's travelling pretty fast but there are dozens of commercial satellites that can all be tracked via apps or websites and seen with binoculars.

    What are they doing up there, if they are not in actual orbit around the Earth?

    There is a huge consistent body of evidence that science has done all of these things. The Flat-Earth people don't do any experiments or if they do they do them badly. They either misunderstand or wilfully misrepresent science. All of the experiments I listed can be done by ANYONE with a bit of brains and effort and have been done hundreds of times in human history.

    I think the fact that a Tesla roadster is heading out into space towards the asteroid belt is a testament to human engineering and humour.

    I understand that people are mistrustful of authority. That's as it should be. But it is the economically and politically powerful where the mistrust should be directed and called to account - after all, we might be many clans but we are one tribe and so far we only have this one rock that we all have to share so why not be nice about it and share it well? Maths tells us that all modern Europeans have a common ancestor from no more than about 1,000 years ago. So most of you are my distant cousins.

    Science over the long term is nothing more than a directed, logical search of truth and understanding of physical reality. Almost anyone can do science. Almost anyone can be an amateur astronomer.

    The SpaceX pictures certainly look unusual. Space looks so friggin empty! But there's no atmosphere so of course the colours will look a bit different. The reason the Hubble Telescope gets way better (sharper) pictures than Earth-based telescopes is because there is no atmosphere, no dust particles etc to get in the way. Also, if the camera's catching any sunlight at all then stars will not be bright enough to see (we don't see stars on Earth during daytime).

    In the SpaceX LiveStream it was often hard to see clearly because of sunlight swamping the camera. Again, of course that's going to happen and should be expected. The spacecraft is slowly rotating so the view keeps changing. I think Musk's point was if he wanted to fake it, it would have looked more like a Hollywood movie.



    edit:
    The anti-moon landing people have had decades to work on their theories.

    Here's an idea - they could have spent that time working out how to do range-finding on rocket launches.

    All rockets send radio telemetry to the ground. The conspiracy theorists could get their own radio receivers and triangulate the rocket. Or they could use optical methods. Whatever - they could do actual tests if they really wanted to.

    They could determine the rocket speed. If that speed exceeds escape velocity then that means the rocket is definitely leaving the planet.

    They have had decades to work on this. Why haven't they done it? They could have actual proof whether or not rockets are going as fast as the space companies claim.

    Wikipedia lists several independent confirmations of the moon missions:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-..._Moon_landings
    Last edited by SebG; 03-09-2018 at 01:55 AM. Reason: added rocket range finding comment

  3. #43
    Eddie Bravo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SebG View Post
    Eddie,

    Absolutely.

    India, USA, USSR, japan, China, have all sent spacecraft to the moon. USSR and USa have landed spacecraft on the moon. USA have landed 12 astronauts on the moon.

    When USA and USSR went to the moon, a high school in the UK, Kettering Grammar School, monitored radio signals from the spacecraft. With weak radio signals you know where they are coming from - if the antenna's not pointed right you don't get any signal.

    Thousands of amateur astronomers and amateur radio enthusiasts have spent probably hundreds of thousands or even millions of person-hours monitoring spacecraft in orbit and beyond.

    There are retroreflectors on the moon, placed there by the astronauts and by robot in the USSR case. Not easy to power a laser that can travel 380,000km but anyone rich enough could do the experiment and get a signal bounce back from those reflectors. A number of observatories do this experiment to track the exact Earth-Moon distance much more accurately than doing it by radar.

    Science is a continual progression. Before WW2, individuals in different countries started building rockets. In WW2, these were developed as weapons of war. After WW2 the same. However, they were also developed by USSR and USA to send objects and people into orbit.

    When the USA and USSR were sworn enemies, they used radar to track where the other one was sending spacecraft. They were definitely trying to keep the other one honest.

    Have you ever looked on the App that tells you where the International Space Station is? I did last year when it was flying over Sydney. I went outside and saw it. It's travelling pretty fast but there are dozens of commercial satellites that can all be tracked via apps or websites and seen with binoculars.

    What are they doing up there, if they are not in actual orbit around the Earth?

    There is a huge consistent body of evidence that science has done all of these things. The Flat-Earth people don't do any experiments or if they do they do them badly. They either misunderstand or wilfully misrepresent science. All of the experiments I listed can be done by ANYONE with a bit of brains and effort and have been done hundreds of times in human history.

    I think the fact that a Tesla roadster is heading out into space towards the asteroid belt is a testament to human engineering and humour.

    I understand that people are mistrustful of authority. That's as it should be. But it is the economically and politically powerful where the mistrust should be directed and called to account - after all, we might be many clans but we are one tribe and so far we only have this one rock that we all have to share so why not be nice about it and share it well? Maths tells us that all modern Europeans have a common ancestor from no more than about 1,000 years ago. So most of you are my distant cousins.

    Science over the long term is nothing more than a directed, logical search of truth and understanding of physical reality. Almost anyone can do science. Almost anyone can be an amateur astronomer.

    The SpaceX pictures certainly look unusual. Space looks so friggin empty! But there's no atmosphere so of course the colours will look a bit different. The reason the Hubble Telescope gets way better (sharper) pictures than Earth-based telescopes is because there is no atmosphere, no dust particles etc to get in the way. Also, if the camera's catching any sunlight at all then stars will not be bright enough to see (we don't see stars on Earth during daytime).

    In the SpaceX LiveStream it was often hard to see clearly because of sunlight swamping the camera. Again, of course that's going to happen and should be expected. The spacecraft is slowly rotating so the view keeps changing. I think Musk's point was if he wanted to fake it, it would have looked more like a Hollywood movie.



    edit:
    The anti-moon landing people have had decades to work on their theories.

    Here's an idea - they could have spent that time working out how to do range-finding on rocket launches.

    All rockets send radio telemetry to the ground. The conspiracy theorists could get their own radio receivers and triangulate the rocket. Or they could use optical methods. Whatever - they could do actual tests if they really wanted to.

    They could determine the rocket speed. If that speed exceeds escape velocity then that means the rocket is definitely leaving the planet.

    They have had decades to work on this. Why haven't they done it? They could have actual proof whether or not rockets are going as fast as the space companies claim.

    Wikipedia lists several independent confirmations of the moon missions:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-..._Moon_landings
    That's all i needed to know, thank you
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  4. #44
    Eddie Bravo's Avatar
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  5. #45
    Eddie,

    that perhaps sneakily edited excerpt is from an interview with an astronaut. Who has been to the ISS twice amongst other things.

    He said "I would go to the moon in a nanosecond".

    This means he would LOVE to go to the moon. Even though he's now 62 (not sure how old he was at the time of the interview).

    The technology doesn't exist anymore because the Saturn V rockets stopped being made in the 1970s. After beating the USSR to the moon, after a few trips, the USA government funded other space missions.

    There is nothing sinister in that statement.

    We can't build Model T Fords anymore. We don't have the technology. If we wanted to, we would have to learn how all over again and organise suppliers, production lines etc. That is a perfectly normal state of affairs. Same goes for Sony Walkmans - probably can't build them anymore either. Can still build VHS recorders but give it a few years we won't be able to build them anymore either. But we will (hopefully) always be able to learn how to again if we ever want to.

    You may know that NASA has been building up the technology to again be able to put big payloads into space with the Delta IV Heavy rocket. But NASA has a limited budget so there has to be a reason to develop any product.

    SpaceX has trumped NASA with the Falcon 9 Heavy. This is the most powerful rocket since Saturn V. What's more, since it is modular and partially reusable it can be used for small as well as large payloads.

    The Falcon 9 can launch considerable payloads into Earth orbit, Lunar Transfer Orbit and also launch 16T payload towards Mars.

    Quick question:

    * Do you accept (believe is the wrong word) there are man-made spacecraft (satellites) in orbit around the Earth, that were delivered into orbit with man-made rockets?
    Last edited by SebG; 03-11-2018 at 01:25 AM.

  6. #46

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    We are working on a film about Project Blue Book and we were shooting at the Tosh studios over in Culver City. We flew in folks from all over the world including the girls from the Ruwa, Zimbabwe sighting but the most interesting one to me was an unassuming guy who Ill keep anonymous- this guy blew away everyone with his ability to prove he was where he said he was, when he said he was and the evidence he had that we did NOT go to the Moon.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias McGriff View Post
    We are working on a film about Project Blue Book and we were shooting at the Tosh studios over in Culver City. We flew in folks from all over the world including the girls from the Ruwa, Zimbabwe sighting but the most interesting one to me was an unassuming guy who Ill keep anonymous- this guy blew away everyone with his ability to prove he was where he said he was, when he said he was and the evidence he had that we did NOT go to the Moon.
    So a random anonymous person makes certain claims. I'll take that at face value. That's fine as far as it goes. Is not "proof" of anything. But happy to explore further.

    Still, before discussing the Moon stuff, I have a more basic question:

    * Do you accept there are man-made spacecraft (satellites) in orbit around the Earth, that were delivered into orbit with man-made rockets?

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