Me & Dan Hardy are on the same page! Wrestlers are stalling to win

[Daniel Valdez]

Interview with Dan Hardy titled: "There's Too Much Wrestling" in the UFC

"Nik Lentz didn't come to fight Andre (Winner), he actually came to avoid one at all costs, like he'd be shortlisted for the Nobel Peace Prize and didn't want to mess up his chances of winning it."

"Lentz grabbed hold of Dre's leg for three coma-inducing rounds, which the ticket-paying public clearly didn't appreciate."

"Rather than saying 'oh, these guys can't wrestle', I think the problem is there's beginning to be too much wrestling in UFC Octagon, not too little of it in the gym. There are a lot of people out there calling themselves 'UFC fighters' who are nothing of the kind. In the UFC, you should go for finishes."

"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either."

"But there's guys out there who just want to use wrestling to hold a stalemate for 15 minutes, without ever risking going for ground and pounds or attempting submissions."

"The Athletic Commissions need to look at the scoring and refereeing to stop this from becoming a problem. If a guy is in a dominant position, but not actually doing anything offensive – stand 'em back up."

"If he is consistently trying to tie the other guy up to avoid actual fighting – warn him and then start taking points. It is supposed to be a fight."

[Daniel Valdez]

"But there's guys out there who just want to use wrestling to hold a stalemate for 15 minutes, without ever risking going for ground and pounds or attempting submissions."

[Nate Hollyfield]

I agree, but it works for some of the "best" fighters in MMA... but look at it from the viewpoint of the judges, he is holding a dominant position, and muting the other fighter from doing anything, it isnt exciting, but its effective.

[Jonathan Wylie]

I agree with this. In Dan Hardy's fight with gsp you can actually here Greg Jackson telling gsp not to pass his guard at one point.

[NelsonLucca]

Yup. I couldn't agree more. In the words of Nick Diaz "in the ufc it's, i grab your ass for 15 min, you grab my ass for 15 min and whoever grabs the most ass wins"

[Jared Gammel]

I agree, but it works for some of the "best" fighters in MMA... but look at it from the viewpoint of the judges, he is holding a dominant position, and muting the other fighter from doing anything, it isnt exciting, but its effective.

They are only the "best" and it's only "effective" if those are what the rules dictate as success. If scoring and officiating changed direction it would quickly die out once it stopped winning fights.

[Tim Elliott]

I think not utilising a dominant position should count against you. Wheres the skill in getting somewhere and the doing nothing?

[AJ Camacho]

I think the issue is bigger than just people getting good with takedowns. I think there is also a paradigm shift held over from the collegiate wrestling culture, where you view the fight as just a game and your goal is just to win the game. The fight is just part of the process, where the aim is to earn points.

There's a reason why collegiate wrestling can be boring to watch. Ironically it's the same reason why watching a bunch of random sports BJJ matches can get boring. Too many people just want to win the game. At least in the BJJ culture there are still gyms who believe in finishing the match. I can't imagine any college wrestling program preaching that the game is pointless and that it's all about the pin.

You don't see this sort of thing in Japan because for them, the game is a means to a fight. That whole budo spirit thing. In America though, it's about winning by any means possible.

[Nate Hollyfield]

They are only the "best" and it's only "effective" if those are what the rules dictate as success. If scoring and officiating changed direction it would quickly die out once it stopped winning fights.

Oh ya man, and in no way am I saying I like it. I just mean, people consider Jake Shields a good fighter, and he does what most wrestlers do, takedown and hold. The whole concept pisses me off.

[hamzatu]

I think a part of what you are saying is true. But, it is not the fault of the wrestlers. It is the referees and officials. If you look at the rules of USA wrestling - it states that a wrestle should be aggressive and always on the attack. In the US Nationals or Olympics wrestlers must fight in the middle of the mat or they are penalized. If they are down on the mat with no action for 10 seconds they are stood back up. The UFC should take a look at this.

The governing bodies must change the rules to force the action and educated the officials more. The wrestlers will adapt like always.