Flexibility/RG Questions

I'm a traditional Gi guy, but I clearly see the difference between Gi Jiu Jitsu, and NoGi MMA Jiu Jitsu, which is why I want to learn all the clinching guards, especially RG, as I want to compete in MMA one day. However, I am not able to get into a full butterfly or lotus stretch yet, and I don't want to just start pulling my legs up before I'm flexible enough and hurt my knees.

I've been doing the butterfly stretch probably about 5 times a week since the start of the year, for about 4-5 minutes each time. I'm getting close, but it's taking a while, and I've heard that the last few inches of the butterfly stretch take the longest. Is this routine (4-5 minutes of butterfly stretch, 5x a week) enough stretching to get to Rubber Guard level flexibility within a reasonable time (1-2 more months)? What I want to know is if this is enough stretching, or should I be doing more? Different stretches? Also, how long did it take you guys to gain the flexibility, and what was your stretching routine? Thanks!

It's a myth that you have to be super flexible to play rubberguard. It helps everything in jj, but isn't required.

The main way to avoid injury is to properly execute the tech. Reps #hugthadamnknee

The "tri-angle" stretch (as it is called in the first rubber guard book" is also a good one. I'd recommend doing it with you back flat on the ground though. If you are stretching you right leg, you would put your right ankle just bellow your left knee while laying on your back and slowly bring you leg toward you. This is basically a version of "reclined pigeon" in Yoga if you want to look that up.

It took me about two years to reach my current flexibility starting from around "average" but I could have done it in less than 6 months I think with what I know now.

If you almost already have your knee's to the mat in a butterfly stretch, your probably ready to start working some rubber guard. Its about angles. Scott Epstein does a great job of emphasizing correct angles so less flexible people can do rubber guard with no problems. And you should be hitting those angles if you have the flexibility anyway. I'd search and see what he's put out for free, but I can say for a fact he goes into depth with this in the "10th planet all stars" DVD as well as in allot of his seminars. I recommend seeking out his instruction for further advise on this subject :)

There are a lots of ways to stretch out the hip joint. Butterfly is a great one but there are others. For example try to gently pull your foot behind your head. You should feel it stretching differently that butterfly does. It's going to pull on your outer glut, instead of the inside of your thigh. That tells you that there are other muscles and tendons involved here. Here are some other ideas for you based on stuff I use:

When doing butterfly:
1. you can press down on your knees to open the stretch (this is probably what you're doing already in butterfly)
2. bounce your knees up and down
3. lean forward pressing your head down toward the mat.
Eventually your goal is to get your butterfly flat on the mat but also get your head to touch the mat. The ultimate goal is to get your butterfly flat, your head on the mat, without feeling any tension or resistance so that you can comfortably sit there for an extended period of time without discomfort.

Lotus:
1. stretch using the lotus position itself
2. stretch single lotus, each side.
3. if you can do double lotus, do it.. but if you have any pain or pressure in your knees at all, go back to singles. Do NOT force double lotus
4. once you have double lotus, start moving your head to the mat
Same ultimate goal here... double lotus, head on the mat, no tension or discomfort.

Foot to chest:
1. take one foot and pull it toward your chest with the opposite hand. If you feel pressure in your knee you can support your knee with your same-side hand (or by wrapping your arm around your knee in New York style).
2. while supporting your knee, keep turning your leg in, trying to get your foot to touch your chest (make sure to support the knee, you want this opening your hip not putting pressure on the knee)
3. Once your foot can touch your chest, take your same side arm and hook it over your knee (like the opposite of a new york.. your upper shin is in your armpit
4. pull your leg as tight to your chest as you can
Ultimate goal here is to get your entire leg flat against your chest and parallel to your shoulders without discomfort

Foot to chest with push and raise
1. using the same position as foot to chest with your foot and knee as close to your body as possible, push on the sole of your foot while turning your core away from that leg. You should really feel a good stretch in the inside of your hip this way.
2. grab your heel with both hands and raise your foot in the air. You should feel the stretch move from your inner hip into your glut. Make sure you dont get pressure in your knee.
3. lower your foot to that it's head height and try to get the sole of your foot to touch your ear. Same as always, no pressure in the knee.

Other stuff that will help:
1 sit with one foot touching your balls and the other one out straight. Lower head to outstretched knee. Mainly works the hamstring
2. do the side splits (I'm sure you know what this is). YOu'll feel that in your inner thighs, but differently than a butterfly which works the inside of your hips, not your thighs.
3. front splits, both directions. This one is really hard and can take years.


As far as how often you do this, probably more than you are. I do this all the time. If I'm sitting in a chair I often pull my legs up into my lap and stretch my hips. Old habit from years of TKD. I see Eddie doing this also. He always seems to be stretching out his hips.

If you're watching TV, get off the couch and onto the floor and stretch. Just sit in butterfly and bounce your knees if you want.

As far as your timetable, I would be a little more conservative than that. I've watched guys go from very low flexibility to very high but it often takes years to develop. Be patient and keep at it.

You should push your flexibility but not too much! Last thing you want is to strain the tendons. You are literally lengthening them when you do this. It takes them time to adjust, so dont push too hard. Best to be consistent and stretch regularly instead of less often but pushing too hard.

And remember to always protect your knees when stretching your hips out.

Good luck!

Stretch after you train, when you are still warm and sweaty..that should speed you up. Add that to your current routine. Also, I like the stretch where your back leg is straight and your other leg is curled in towards you (in front of you) and you try to touch your nose to the mat, as well as if you sit back toward the straight leg(behind you) it offers a different type of stretch..two in one hip opener.

I can't really compete with the full breakdown above, but in my experience, I had atrocious flexibility about 2 weeks ago when I actually started doing the stretches and even in this short span, I've become somewhat average. I can at least get to mission control and new york without overexerting myself and my triangle finishing percentage has shown marked improvement. I never had the 'gift' of flexibility like many others but just taking it as gospel that with time and repetition, I can get to full lotus one day. Keep at it brotha. Drink lots of water too, I heard that helps

my flexibility is terrible. ive been doing most of these on a daily basis for the last 2 months. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG9qbvAN3gQ

aswell and sitting in butterfly for about 20 -25 mins. id say my legs are still at about a 40 degree angle sitting in butterfly. it pisses me off. lol

I always hear eddie and joe rogan talk about some guy who got really flexible in like 2 months. I would love to know what his routine was.

I can't do lotus or get my knees close to ground in butterfly stretch and I am old. I still play RG. granted it isn't a awesome RG since I can't double bag, and can only play one sided. But RG was good before double bag. There are so many options from Mission control, I hit Dead Orchard with regularity. Just get the angles that work for you and run the stuff that you can do. Mission control, zombie, meathook, triangle still is a legit path.

iam sure old people can get flexible also Greg.

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Originally Posted by eoin ahern

iam sure old people can get flexible also Greg.

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yes they can, mine is not from lack of effort, it is just taking a long time.