Aoki three tapouts from Mino’s milestone

Could Shinya Aoki one day retire as the most effective Jiu-Jitsu black belt in MMA?

When it comes down to numbers, at least, the day is approaching for the Japanese fighter.

A shoo-in for the great finisher’s hall of fame, the USA’s Jeremy Horn, 35, isn’t one to sweat up a gi, but at the end of this month he’ll be gunning for Thales Leites in Sweden, looking for the 50th submission of his career. That’s right, Horn today holds 49 wins by way of locks or chokes – out of 112 fights, at just about every promotion out there.

Who’s next? Perhaps the still active Ken Shamrock, with 22 finishes at 47 years of age. But he isn’t a Jiu-Jitsu black belt either.

Then there’s Brazilian black belt Rodrigo Minotauro, 34, with 20 wins coming via Jiu-Jitsu holds. Kazushi Sakuraba has 19.

Aoki is already coming up on his compatriot’s personal best, almost at Minotauro’s too. At 27 years of age, the Yuki Nakai Jiu-Jitsu black belt notched his 17th submission win, over Lyle Beerbohm at last Saturday’s Strikeforce show.

Will the Brazilian heavyweight have it in him to return to the UFC and add some arms to his collection and put some distance between the two? Will Aoki find excitement in pushing past a myth like Sakuraba, or will he just shrug it off? And how does Horn do it, huh?

Wow! I had no idea Horn had that many subs! I knew he had over 100 fights, but damn!

I'm pulling for Aoki. I feel he's had a wider variety of submissions and some of the more exciting submissions to watch too. He's had a couple of gogos, a flying triangle, some different chokes, armbars, heel hooks, neck cranks, etc. The guy is awsome to watch when he's on his game!

It depends where he is fighting. A solid black belt could get 20 submissions victory's in 20 matches against people who are making their mma debut, or get tko'ed 20 out of 20 times if they would have let him fight 20 times in a UFC caliber show. I would say , just with undefeated streaks it depends, when where and against who. Like tapping out GSP or Cain Velasquez would be a much harder accomplishment than taking out 10 lower level guys in a 2 month period.

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Originally Posted by AndyK5

It depends where he is fighting. A solid black belt could get 20 submissions victory's in 20 matches against people who are making their mma debut, or get tko'ed 20 out of 20 times if they would have let him fight 20 times in a UFC caliber show. I would say , just with undefeated streaks it depends, when where and against who. Like tapping out GSP or Cain Velasquez would be a much harder accomplishment than taking out 10 lower level guys in a 2 month period.

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Aoki has subbed Tatsuya Kawajiri, Eddie Alvarez, and Joachim Hansen in Dream, all of which are stiff competition, and he did the flying triangle in Pride on Clay French and beat Joachim Hansen the first time with a gogo in Pride. He's the Dream lightweight champ and was the Shooto middleweight champ. He's definately not fighting a bunch of guys making there debut.

watch this Space......."ROGER GRACIE" early call i know but hey he's my coach

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Originally Posted by Andrew Maxwell

Aoki has subbed Tatsuya Kawajiri, Eddie Alvarez, and Joachim Hansen in Dream, all of which are stiff competition, and he did the flying triangle in Pride on Clay French and beat Joachim Hansen the first time with a gogo in Pride. He's the Dream lightweight champ and was the Shooto middleweight champ. He's definately not fighting a bunch of guys making there debut.

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I understand what you are saying. I was not talking about Aoki or anyone else. I am talking in general any fighter that you are looking at. For example Jeremy Horn, a submission wizard, has most of those submission wins against relatively over matched guys. He also has great wins against very legitimate and dangerous opponents but not 50 of them. Same with aoki. He goes to win strikeforce/UFC lightweight/featherweight championship and racks up lots of submission wins on his way, then my hat is off to him. Overall though he is one of the few who has the skills to do that for sure. I still remember his gogoplata from top, friggin brutal.