BJJ vs 10th Planet..

So I know this topic comes up ALL the time. But I was hoping to talk about it in a way thats perhaps a little more organized and open minded than the usual arguments you hear. I was wondering the pros and cons of each. And more specifically what the actual differences are between them.

Beginning with techniques.. I understand that the 10th planet system has names for literally every position and little transition (I personally love this aspect) But which of these moves are not taught in BJJ (regardless if they have a name), and why? I hear things like "rubber guard will never work" but at the same time "That was around in BJJ long before Eddie named it". Which for obvious reasons.. Doesnt line up (unless you admit youre teaching techniques you know to be faulty?) But as for the twister/twister side, lockdown, truck, ect.. Are any of these moves taught in Bjj? And on the flip side.. are there any moves in Bjj that arent taught in 10th planet (besides the obvious techniques that require a gi) if so, why?

On top of that.. what do you consider to be the most effective statistically? What i mean by this is.. Everyone here obviously believes in the system. But how does it usually stack up in tournaments? (im not asking this pretentiously.. I legitimately dont know the answer) Ive heard a few people talk about how 10th planet never wins any big/prestigious tournaments.. But at the same time I see a few people from the system winning world tournaments. (granted, BJJ probably has more gold medals per year as of now.. But you also have to think, they also have THOUSANDS of blackbelts.) So when people say things like "If its so good why has only 1 person ever got a medal at the Abu Dhabis?" I cant help but to put it into proportion and think "well, we had 2-3 guys invited.. which at the time was 30% of our blackbelts.. Where as less than 1% of bjj Black belts get invited." So I am curious to know if anyone goes to enough tournaments to notice how many 10th planet guys are winning compared to how many enter. (I live in ohio so theres very few 10th planet guys at the tournaments Ive been to)

I see both sides to the argument.. But I guess my main question is, other than the gi, and focus on the clinch.. whats the main differences between the two styles techniques/moves?

Fuck BJJ!! Fucking pajama wearing faggots!!! except for when I'M trainy wif da gi...then is good for my lifes.
That pretty much answers your question, you're welcome.

I also hear people use the ole "And how many world champions does 10thPlanet have...? Yeah, exactly." I usually reply, "Well, FUCKER, Mr. Goddamn know it all, BJJ has been around WAY longer than the 10thPlanet system. 10P is still very young. Give it time, and you will see how many world champions 10P will produce.......BITCH." Then, they just shut up. :P

It's all grappling.

The difference between any different types of grappling (gi/ no-gi/ judo/ wrestling) are the rules you super impose on them which cause you to develop different styles.

What's nice about the 10th planet system is that they try to adopt anything that works and are constantly modifying moves to make them better.

It isn't like an 80 year old system so they may not be winning ridiculous amounts of medals yet but Im sure this will come in time.

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Originally Posted by Ehsan_Karam

Fuck BJJ!! Fucking pajama wearing faggots!!! except for when I'M trainy wif da gi...then is good for my lifes.
That pretty much answers your question, you're welcome.

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I literally laughed out loud. "pajama wearing faggots!!!" Its funny but I don't think of gi grapplers that way myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJQnFAm1VI

No-gi vs. PJ's at the end of the video

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Originally Posted by John Hickman

I also hear people use the ole "And how many world champions does 10thPlanet have...? Yeah, exactly." I usually reply, "Well, FUCKER, Mr. Goddamn know it all, BJJ has been around WAY longer than the 10thPlanet system. 10P is still very young. Give it time, and you will see how many world champions 10P will produce.......BITCH." Then, they just shut up. :P

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Hahah. I don't exactly answer in that tone, but with the same logic. Give it time. How many students rolled through alliance before we got elite competitors? How many students do you cross before you get Galvao or a Marcelo? You know? But if you think about it, in a relatively short time, our guys have been tearing competition up. It's only a matter of time before 10th planet produces a guy who takes gold at abu dhabi.

By the arguer's logic 99% of BJJ sucks because only 1% of black belts get mundial titles. Haha. But another thing to consider is that 10th planet isn't a points based system. It's a submission based system. And the Gracie nationals and Gracie worlds showed that 10th planet is major force to be reconed with in the sub only format.

Are things like the truck and lockdown taught? I'd say yes from what I've seen, but no....not the way Eddie teaches it. Not to the degree of excellence that 10th planet teaches it. Everyone who tried to pull off 10th planet moves that haven't learned directly from 10th planet usually looks like....well it looks pretty obvious that they haven't trained with 10th planet. Haha.

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Originally Posted by Ehsan_Karam

Fuck BJJ!! Fucking pajama wearing faggots!!! except for when I'M trainy wif da gi...then is good for my lifes.
That pretty much answers your question, you're welcome.

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That made me laugh as well. lol

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

Are things like the truck and lockdown taught? I'd say yes from what I've seen, but no....not the way Eddie teaches it. Not to the degree of excellence that 10th planet teaches it. Everyone who tried to pull off 10th planet moves that haven't learned directly from 10th planet usually looks like....well it looks pretty obvious that they haven't trained with 10th planet. Haha.

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Thats kind of what I was asking i suppose. I know they claim lockdown is in the system of BJJ.. But Ive never really seen it gone over in a way that covers ALL the small details the Eddie seems to. Which I think anyone who does JJ for awhile realizes.. there are no such things as "small" details. SO in a sense, I see BJJ as having a rough idea of what 10th planet does.. but they lack the details in those specific techniques to really ever use them efficiently. So what about the other way around.. Is there things that BJJ offers when it comes to techniques that we dont have or teach? Or is the general concept of 10th planet more oriented towards Bruce Lee type philosophy of "If it works, use it". For instance.. With herzogs background in Judo, We see some of that influence displayed in his jiujitsu when he teaches. (because he knows which techniques work and which dont from the art) So we just kind of all agree that its something that we can add to the 10th planet system when presented by a credible source and it has been proven to work

I'd rather hang out with 10thPJJ people than the BJJ people I've met. That's a huge plus column entry for me with 10thPJJ; if I'm going to devote my time to the training I only want cool, fun, laid back people around me. The whole thing that everyone rolls with everyone, and pajama closure device colors are not so in your face makes for a great environment for a newbie jumping into the world.
The other huge bonus, is that 10thPJJ is a simple bolt on system for a primarily stand up person like me. I can have game from square one, rather than having a ton of subs that I need to turn into a game plan on my own.

I have been around jiu jitsu for almost 10 years now (even though I've never earned a belt, I don't need one but it's a goal of mine) and have trained in the Army (M.A.C.P), several different so called BJJ gyms and have tried the Gracie online system. Hands down, 10th Planet is the most fun, most accepting system. I have only been on this forum for a little bit now and you can really see the "family" aspect. Everyone I have spoken with that trains at a 10th Planet school wouldn't train anywhere else. I guess what I see as the main difference isn't what you wear or what the techniques are called, it's the atmosphere that attracts me. I can be myself around 10th Planet people, I can smoke some bud and have amazing conversations with complete strangers and feel like a part of the family, no one has ever made me feel like shit for not knowing something. THAT is more important to me.

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Originally Posted by Moises Montalvo

I have been around jiu jitsu for almost 10 years now (even though I've never earned a belt, I don't need one but it's a goal of mine) and have trained in the Army (M.A.C.P), several different so called BJJ gyms and have tried the Gracie online system. Hands down, 10th Planet is the most fun, most accepting system. I have only been on this forum for a little bit now and you can really see the "family" aspect. Everyone I have spoken with that trains at a 10th Planet school wouldn't train anywhere else. I guess what I see as the main difference isn't what you wear or what the techniques are called, it's the atmosphere that attracts me. I can be myself around 10th Planet people, I can smoke some bud and have amazing conversations with complete strangers and feel like a part of the family, no one has ever made me feel like shit for not knowing something. THAT is more important to me.

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Well said. I would definitely say my favorite thing about 10th planet is the people in it even more-so than the techniques. Though I havent had enough experience with traditional BJJ schools to have a set idea about the culture that comes with it. Ive probably trained at maybe 5 different ones for any decent length of time. And Id say I found 2 of them very appealing based on the people in it. Very open minded, humble, and all around good people. However I will say that a majority of them Ive been to reminded me much more of a karate mcdojo I was apart of when I was younger. (Not saying thats the case for most BJJ schools, It obviously all depends on the one running it, Im only speaking from the ones Ive had experience with) But I do like that this community seems to go much deeper than only jiujitsu. We discuss all sorts of interesting topics and are open to hear others opinions. So I would agree, theres more important things than tradition. And I think the setup of the 10th planet system does do a great job of getting us there.

The 10th Planet system includes any and every legit no-gi technique that we can find, no matter what style they came from, bjj, sambo, wrestling, catch etc. Many of these techniques are forbidden or not taught in traditional bjj schools like the rubber guard, twister, lockdown half, and even the deep hook transitions to spider web are not taught the way they are taught by 10p instructors.

10p is on a quest to provide it's soldiers with every legit no-gi technique possible, especially MMA jiu jitsu techniques. If we are not teaching a certain legit no-gi technique it's only because we haven't gotten to it yet, it has nothing to do with close mindedness. Most traditional bjj schools are not on the same quest. Some are, but for sure many are not. If a bjj school is not teaching the lockdown half, the rubber guard and twisters then they are not providing their students with all the legit no-gi techniques they can find.

As far as tournaments go, Gracie Nationals and Gracie Worlds are the two most prestigious submission only tournaments in the world. 10p swarmed both of them and we are the current team champions of both of them. 10p also dominates SUB LEAGUE, a submission only event in the Pacific Northwest. Also 10th Planet San Francisco's Adam Sachnoff just won the ADCC trials finals match with rubber guard, now what? :)

Eddie Bravo laying shit down, son! lol

I was wondering if "the dude himself" would comment and I'm glad he did and glad I am part of this kick ass organization.

10th Planet Jiu Jitsu is like herpes. The longer you ignore it, the stronger it gets and it ain't goin anywhere

Spreadin tha !0th Planet Jiu Jitsu Virus

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

The 10th Planet system includes any and every legit no-gi technique that we can find, no matter what style they came from, bjj, sambo, wrestling, catch etc. Many of these techniques are forbidden or not taught in traditional bjj schools like the rubber guard, twister, lockdown half, and even the deep hook transitions to spider web are not taught the way they are taught by 10p instructors.

10p is on a quest to provide it's soldiers with every legit no-gi technique possible, especially MMA jiu jitsu techniques. If we are not teaching a certain legit no-gi technique it's only because we haven't gotten to it yet, it has nothing to do with close mindedness. Most traditional bjj schools are not on the same quest. Some are, but for sure many are not. If a bjj school is not teaching the lockdown half, the rubber guard and twisters then they are not providing their students with all the legit no-gi techniques they can find.

As far as tournaments go, Gracie Nationals and Gracie Worlds are the two most prestigious submission only tournaments in the world. 10p swarmed both of them and we are the current team champions of both of them. 10p also dominates SUB LEAGUE, a submission only event in the Pacific Northwest. Also 10th Planet San Francisco's Adam Sachnoff just won the ADCC trials finals match with rubber guard, now what? :)

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BOOM MF'ers!

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

BOOM MF'ers!

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+1

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

The 10th Planet system includes any and every legit no-gi technique that we can find, no matter what style they came from, bjj, sambo, wrestling, catch etc. Many of these techniques are forbidden or not taught in traditional bjj schools like the rubber guard, twister, lockdown half, and even the deep hook transitions to spider web are not taught the way they are taught by 10p instructors.

10p is on a quest to provide it's soldiers with every legit no-gi technique possible, especially MMA jiu jitsu techniques. If we are not teaching a certain legit no-gi technique it's only because we haven't gotten to it yet, it has nothing to do with close mindedness. Most traditional bjj schools are not on the same quest. Some are, but for sure many are not. If a bjj school is not teaching the lockdown half, the rubber guard and twisters then they are not providing their students with all the legit no-gi techniques they can find.

As far as tournaments go, Gracie Nationals and Gracie Worlds are the two most prestigious submission only tournaments in the world. 10p swarmed both of them and we are the current team champions of both of them. 10p also dominates SUB LEAGUE, a submission only event in the Pacific Northwest. Also 10th Planet San Francisco's Adam Sachnoff just won the ADCC trials finals match with rubber guard, now what? :)

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Oh snap.. just got real in here :P lol. And thank you for clarifying the specifics that i was looking for. (The details about rubber guard, twister, lockdown half, and deep hook transitions being a few of the things that are taught in this system, but not traditional BJJ) And its awesome to hear the info about the success we're having in the sub only league. That will definitely be a nice bit of statistical data to have on my side in the event that someone brings up tournament results.

But just for the record.. I cant wait until BJJ accepts these new concepts/ideas incorporated into the 10th planet system. (once they are proven effected.. like they are now.. there will eventually be no choice but to adopt them into the BJJ system) To just imagine how amazing its going to be once ALL brazilian jiujitsu practitioners start messing around and perfecting these techniques. Imagine all the greats throughout time (and today) who would probably have so much to add to the system if they only had the understanding of it. To see Rickson dedicate time to perfecting his Twister side control.. and the amount of details people like that would eventually add over time. To have thousands of minds working together to improve the system rather than just a few hundred. One day.. when everyone is back on the same page.. Jiujitsu really is going to be such a dominate style in MMA once again. Its going to be incredible to see.

When I started my JJ Journey, I started out "In da gi". It's kind of ironic to watch that Dean Lister video and hear our stories are some what similar. I competed in a local tournament "Southwest Classic" one of gustavo dantas' events and didn't like the fact that the guy I fought rubbed icy hot on his forearms before the match (One of my old teammates saw this in the bathroom) and he held on to me for dear life when he took my back. That threw my whole idea of the points system and how i really don't like it. Advantages, and passes and the points you get for attempted subs. Don't get me wrong, it's great for your speed and submitting a guy because you have that pressure fact, but a guy can be up on points look and see he's up by 2 points with 1 minute left and hold you down instead of doing what he's supposed to be doing and submitting you or you him. Which is why my first NoGi tournament was submission ONLY. Haha! I did just that in my bracket.

I got an invite by one of my brethren to come to a 10thpjj Phoenix class and work out with my now instructor John "Yoda" Botello and just fell in love with the NoGi system. It's faster and you have to think ahead. When I went back and told my instructor he got all butt hurt and started giving me the cold shoulder. SO, I said "It's all Good homie" and walked out the door. Alot of those guys preach "No Egos" and be Open minded, but very few are and actually practice what they preach. The 10thpjj system.... I haven't met one dickhead yet and that's because leadership starts from the top and works it's way down and Eddie Bravo has done the best job that I've seen and the places I've been to get some great instructors. And us students follow like sheep to the Open Mat slaughter.. LOL..

It's like Eddie Bravo said "Our system is always evolving". He is constantly adding pieces from the top BJJ guy. I've heard some stories about how guys from other gyms would roll into a 10thpjj school and challenge instructors and students and get smashed! Simply because they don't like the way Eddie built his system and they wanted to see if it was legit. Welllll, Yeah, IT IS. Yes, we have some pretty funny names for every single move, transition and submission but it works bro! Like "the ham sandwich", sounds funny, but get your calf caught and it won't be. LOL..

In comparison to traditional BJJ and "Da Gi". Alot of instructors don't want to create their own moves they'd rather stick to the basics and that's fine, but that's not evolution. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is all about evolution and evolving the art bro. True story, I created a move a spinning move transitioning into side control "in da gi" called the "The Black Tornado". I'm sure it's been done before but everyone has their own move they love doing or add their own mix to make it "Mine". My old instructor told me "not to do it and focus on the basic pass". I'm like man, your suppressing my Mental growth (in my mind), I didn't want to be disrespectful. After all He has his Black Belt right? However, when I came to 10thpjj my instructor (John Botello) is helping me to break it down to see how and if it works in live rolling and what are the disadvantages. See, Stimulating growth and all that's going to do is create more WORLD champions from the 10thpjj system. :)

I personally plan on competing in all the major tournaments next year including ADCC. It's a personal thing for me because I just like to compete! Plus, as a student I want to show the world the system I train in WORKS and there is ZERO question. It's still young and as in all things young they mature, then grow and when they hit a stride or a growth spurt watch the fuck out!

Alittle bit of a tangent but that's my opinion of our system. Hopefully it gave you alittle more insight.

We've been talking a lot lately about opportunistic vs. systematic grappling. 10pjj is a system with an answer for for just about anything that happens while rolling. In BJJ you learn a lot of techniques in an isolated fashion, then you eventually develop a game that' s more based on creating opportunities.

My personal feeling is that 10pjj will create a more rounded grappler in a shorter period of time, based on its systematic nature.

I'm not a good rubber guard player, more of a half guard guy when it comes to 10pjj, but I still look to Eddie to be current with what WORKS.

Can anyone give a short list of the success of 10th planet in MMA?

The Man himself spoke the truth and the truth is goooood!

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Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson

Can anyone give a short list of the success of 10th planet in MMA?

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Dude Go To Youtube, Watch Aoki, BJ Penn, Korean Zombie, (Lucas Pimenta vs. Jeff Rexroad), and there are lot more fights in which you can see 10PJJ Awesomness, We can have a entire thread on 10PJJ In MMA Fights Videos.

I think it's important to train in both gi and no gi. Gi gives you great fundamentals and you're very aware of chokes from every little position. So when you go to no gi you have great defense. It's funny when you see a guy who only had done no gi come in to gi. Both are very important in their own ways... You can't predict who might attack you, and if its a guy in shorts and Tshirt you should be able to adjust your grips accordingly. The same can be said with someone with a jacket and pants.

I honestly think its a much easier transition from gi to no gi than vise versa. As for the 10P system I can't say too much as I've never trained it but it seems Taylor Made for MMA

Which is a good thing I mean. If I were in MMA I'd most likely go under the 10P system, and I'm surprised more MMA/UFC fighters don't.. But it is still young.

"We all got love for this ground game, and that's all that matters."

POWERFUL

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Originally Posted by eddie bravo

the 10th planet system includes any and every legit no-gi technique that we can find, no matter what style they came from, bjj, sambo, wrestling, catch etc. Many of these techniques are forbidden or not taught in traditional bjj schools like the rubber guard, twister, lockdown half, and even the deep hook transitions to spider web are not taught the way they are taught by 10p instructors.

10p is on a quest to provide it's soldiers with every legit no-gi technique possible, especially mma jiu jitsu techniques. If we are not teaching a certain legit no-gi technique it's only because we haven't gotten to it yet, it has nothing to do with close mindedness. Most traditional bjj schools are not on the same quest. Some are, but for sure many are not. If a bjj school is not teaching the lockdown half, the rubber guard and twisters then they are not providing their students with all the legit no-gi techniques they can find.

As far as tournaments go, gracie nationals and gracie worlds are the two most prestigious submission only tournaments in the world. 10p swarmed both of them and we are the current team champions of both of them. 10p also dominates sub league, a submission only event in the pacific northwest. Also 10th planet san francisco's adam sachnoff just won the adcc trials finals match with rubber guard, now what? :)

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word!

I still think 10th planet is BJJ!!!

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Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson

Can anyone give a short list of the success of 10th planet in MMA?

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Off the top of my head: Aoki has hit basic path from rubber guard numerous times, Korean Zombie credited Eddie Bravo for his twister, Dean Lister hit a textbook London (when it was in the system) to triangle, Alan Belcher was able to use the truck to control and dishearten Toquino (almost had a twister and a calf crank), that one japanese guy who hit the ninja choke from rubber guard, as a matter of fact, Japanese guys seem to have an affinity for RG as I've seen a few highlights with Japanese orgs having a good deal of RG, and this isn't even listing all the ammy events where young guys are using it.

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Originally Posted by Greg W

I still think 10th planet is BJJ!!!

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No one is saying it's not. It's not 10th planet shotokan. We ARE jiu jitsu. We're simply a different approach to jiu jitsu. A mutation that surviving nature's threats. An evolution. But I agree with Dean Lister's position on it. It's all jiu jitsu. The gentle art. We're all just expressing it differently.


And on a side note, I've enjoyed everyone's posts in this thread. Reading about everyone's passion for 10th planet is awesome.

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Originally Posted by John Hickman

I also hear people use the ole "And how many world champions does 10thPlanet have...? Yeah, exactly." I usually reply, "Well, FUCKER, Mr. Goddamn know it all, BJJ has been around WAY longer than the 10thPlanet system. 10P is still very young. Give it time, and you will see how many world champions 10P will produce.......BITCH." Then, they just shut up. :P

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the statement should be how many no gi submission only tournament champions do you guys have?..

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Originally Posted by Arun Sharma

Dude Go To Youtube, Watch Aoki, BJ Penn, Korean Zombie, (Lucas Pimenta vs. Jeff Rexroad), and there are lot more fights in which you can see 10PJJ Awesomness, We can have a entire thread on 10PJJ In MMA Fights Videos.

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Thanks, I just wanted to be able to show people who claim 10th Planet is not good for MMA.

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Originally Posted by Greg W

I still think 10th planet is BJJ!!!

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That kinda bothered me when I was writing, it is but for ease of conversation, you know.

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

The 10th Planet system includes any and every legit no-gi technique that we can find, no matter what style they came from, bjj, sambo, wrestling, catch etc. Many of these techniques are forbidden or not taught in traditional bjj schools like the rubber guard, twister, lockdown half, and even the deep hook transitions to spider web are not taught the way they are taught by 10p instructors.

10p is on a quest to provide it's soldiers with every legit no-gi technique possible, especially MMA jiu jitsu techniques. If we are not teaching a certain legit no-gi technique it's only because we haven't gotten to it yet, it has nothing to do with close mindedness. Most traditional bjj schools are not on the same quest. Some are, but for sure many are not. If a bjj school is not teaching the lockdown half, the rubber guard and twisters then they are not providing their students with all the legit no-gi techniques they can find.

As far as tournaments go, Gracie Nationals and Gracie Worlds are the two most prestigious submission only tournaments in the world. 10p swarmed both of them and we are the current team champions of both of them. 10p also dominates SUB LEAGUE, a submission only event in the Pacific Northwest. Also 10th Planet San Francisco's Adam Sachnoff just won the ADCC trials finals match with rubber guard, now what? :)

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+ a number so great if I tried to type out all the readers would see is the Matrix in their face. Knowledge.

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Originally Posted by einstein

the statement should be how many no gi submission only tournament champions do you guys have?..

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to that I would say a shit load!

I will never understand why editors put music underneath interviews like that. It's so annoying...

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Originally Posted by Ric

I will never understand why editors put music underneath interviews like that. It's so annoying...

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I agree. Your insite into audio/video stuff is impressive. I've been watching Marcelo in Action, you do great work.

One of the major differences in Gi and no-gi schools is, in gi schools, they have a notion of 'seasons.' Gi season is usually around the first half of the year, and no-gi season is the latter half of the year. These seasons coincide with the major tournaments going on during that time- mundials in the first half, no-gi worlds, no-gi xxx competition, in the latter.

There's only one season for no-gi jiu jitsu- it's called duck hunting season, and it's year round.

Another thing, it used to be the case that you'd only have 10P techniques at 10P and No-Gi schools, but I've seen a change as of late. Many of the big gi branded schools have students pulling RG and lockdown.

Train what you love, and the rest will take care of itself.

10th planet is supposed to be open minded, I'm actually surprised to see so many fuck the gi comments. One should learn all they can with and without the gi.

First off, it is a grappling sport, like wrestling, sambo and judo, you should take what you can from it. There is no GI is better than NO GI. thats like saying my kung fu is better than your karate.

Here is some Gi propaganda to piss off the nogi zealots.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...21400490_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...03553700_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...88178613_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...88178613_n.jpg[/QUOTE]

Marcelo never said that. right?

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Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...88178613_n.jpg

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Marcelo never said that. right?[/QUOTE]

If the quote is next to a picture of the person it is ALWAYS true! Duh.