The GI is dead?

I've got another year of school before I can call myself an attorney, but as a Jiu Jitsu practitioner, goddamn it looks like case closed. I'm sure this is old news to most of the peeps on this forum, but it was nice to see it all laid out in one piece, not to mention on the front page of the Underground and mmafighting.com. Not sure how anyone can still say Gi-Jiu Jitsu is better for MMA without talking nonsense.

I thought the analogies of clinching with Dan Henderson vs. playing the collar/sleeve game with Ribero were perfect.

Well played Mr. Bravo, well played :)

http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/3/26...against-the-gi

As an ex-attorney, I agree.

Dana band the GI because he scared.

"Even Marcelo Garcia himself, his newest strategy, his latest strategy - the best jiu-jitsu guy on the planet - says do not do anything in the gi that you can't do no gi because it won't translate and it's not good for your game."

Dude, I would love to have the direct quote here.

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Originally Posted by Joshua Jarboe

"Even Marcelo Garcia himself, his newest strategy, his latest strategy - the best jiu-jitsu guy on the planet - says do not do anything in the gi that you can't do no gi because it won't translate and it's not good for your game."

Dude, I would love to have the direct quote here.

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Wach his Budo Jake rolled up interview

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...pskyfrl8zf.png

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Wach his Budo Jake rolled up interview

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Hai! *official 10th planet bow*

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Originally Posted by Joshua Jarboe

"Even Marcelo Garcia himself, his newest strategy, his latest strategy - the best jiu-jitsu guy on the planet - says do not do anything in the gi that you can't do no gi because it won't translate and it's not good for your game."

Dude, I would love to have the direct quote here.

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Marcelo may have said this at some point, but if you ever watch any of the videos of him rolling in the gi at his academy, he's grabbing grips all day.

I think you may have taken Marcelo out of context

Marcelo uses gi grips all the time, he teaches the bow and arrow choke, he teaches and sweeps with gi and belt grips from butterfly, etc...just this week he is teaching a collar choke (loop choke) against the turtle on MGinaction

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Originally Posted by Liquidrob

I think you may have taken Marcelo out of context

Marcelo uses gi grips all the time, he teaches the bow and arrow choke, he teaches and sweeps with gi and belt grips from butterfly, etc...just this week he is teaching a collar choke (loop choke) against the turtle on MGinaction

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Nah, Marcelo said he only uses nogi grips in the GI. Just because you teach something, doesn't mean that you use it.

Ummm, he just choked Bernardo Faria out with a loop choke

to me the gi has been dead for yrs!

What is a gi?

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Originally Posted by Liquidrob

Ummm, he just choked Bernardo Faria out with a loop choke

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when was this?

t was posted a couple weeks ago

This is why I find it funny when people say stuff without really knowing or just repeat stuff they here

Marcelo uses gi grips, Marcelo uses collar chokes, Marcelo grabs the belt, Marcelo teaches and uses the Gi all the time

Watch his roll with Faria, he grabs sleeves, he subs him with a loop choke, he uses far lapel control from half guard on top and side control to pass, etc...

I dont know how this stuff spreads, but it does, it just annoys me when people say stuff without really knowing or finding out for themselves

Can't edit, a couple spelling mistakes, sorry about that

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Originally Posted by Liquidrob

t was posted a couple weeks ago

This is why I find it funny when people say stuff without really knowing or just repeat stuff they here

Marcelo uses gi grips, Marcelo uses collar chokes, Marcelo grabs the belt, Marcelo teaches and uses the Gi all the time

Watch his roll with Faria, he grabs sleeves, he subs him with a loop choke, he uses far lapel control from half guard on top and side control to pass, etc...

I dont know how this stuff spreads, but it does, it just annoys me when people say stuff without really knowing or finding out for themselves

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Because Eddie said it once when he was advocating training nogi jiu jiu or, rather, opposing gi jiu jitsu for MMA and everyone slurps up the cool-aid. This is the same guy that says he has geared his entire system towards MMA, but then advocates wearing gi pants for nogi jiu jitsu (unless you're fighter Royler Gracie evidently lol) even though gi pants aren't allowed in MMA.

To me, this entire debate is ridiculous. Gi vs. Nogi, it doesn't matter. It's all jiu jitsu. The debate is also entirely one-sided. Have you ever heard gi guys oppose training nogi as strongly as 10P opposes the gi? If you're trying that desperately to rationalize your training focus, perhaps you have some doubts.

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Originally Posted by Joseph Hachey

Because Eddie said it once when he was advocating training nogi jiu jiu or, rather, opposing gi jiu jitsu for MMA and everyone slurps up the cool-aid. This is the same guy that says he has geared his entire system towards MMA, but then advocates wearing gi pants for nogi jiu jitsu (unless you're fighter Royler Gracie evidently lol) even though gi pants aren't allowed in MMA.

To me, this entire debate is ridiculous. Gi vs. Nogi, it doesn't matter. It's all jiu jitsu. The debate is also entirely one-sided. Have you ever heard gi guys oppose training nogi as strongly as 10P opposes the gi? If you're trying that desperately to rationalize your training focus, perhaps you have some doubts.

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Sorry, forgot which forum I was on. What I meant to say was "Fuck wearing pyjamas. Ain't no collar chokes in the streets!!"

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Originally Posted by Joseph Hachey

The debate is also entirely one-sided. Have you ever heard gi guys oppose training nogi as strongly as 10P opposes the gi? If you're trying that desperately to rationalize your training focus, perhaps you have some doubts.

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I don't agree with that at all

I've been told everything from what I do is not 'real' jiu jitsu, no-gi belts don't count, I'm less technical.....take your pick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk3FUUNQuVA

The gi is an offensive hindrance. I don't see how this could possibly still be up for discussion, other than pre-conceived biases coming into play. If I don't want you limping out of my guard, I better learn to play with a pretty good amount of squeeze. That takes endurance, reps, and dedication. The gi prevents you from needing to squeeze, limiting the endurance, reps, and dedication to squeezing that is required for effective no-gi submission attacks.

I often hear the argument that the gi will help you defensively by slowing the game down. I can see some room for this being the case. But if efficiency is the primary goal of Jiu Jitsu, the gi can be a hindrance here as well. Slow and methodical isn't always the most efficient way when the gi isn't present. Often times the most efficient escape from an Omoplata is simply to go limp and pull your arm out of there. You don't learn how to do that in a gi. You learn the opposite of that.

If you wanna play in the gi, no problem. I like playing in the gi from time to time just to change things up. Go for it. It can be fun.

The one thing I think we don't address enough is the difference between no gi with gloves, and no gi without gloves. Lots of differences there, as well. And I think that needs to be addressed for our fighters. And they should be rolling with punches pretty much all the time, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZTBrk7K1VE

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Originally Posted by Liquidrob

t was posted a couple weeks ago

This is why I find it funny when people say stuff without really knowing or just repeat stuff they here

Marcelo uses gi grips, Marcelo uses collar chokes, Marcelo grabs the belt, Marcelo teaches and uses the Gi all the time

Watch his roll with Faria, he grabs sleeves, he subs him with a loop choke, he uses far lapel control from half guard on top and side control to pass, etc...

I dont know how this stuff spreads, but it does, it just annoys me when people say stuff without really knowing or finding out for themselves

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Link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BbHjKvHG6Y

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Originally Posted by VIVIANO

I don't agree with that at all

I've been told everything from what I do is not 'real' jiu jitsu, no-gi belts don't count, I'm less technical.....take your pick

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Sorry, I wasn't being totally clear. What I meant was gi guys don't strongly oppose ALSO training nogi. Yes, a lot of them would oppose solely training nogi, myself included.

I think the gi practitioners still dominate the debate

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Originally Posted by Joseph Hachey

Sorry, I wasn't being totally clear. What I meant was gi guys don't strongly oppose ALSO training nogi. Yes, a lot of them would oppose solely training nogi, myself included.

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Joseph, what is your goal set regarding grappling?

I can't believe you turds dragged me into this debate. Again.

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Originally Posted by Joseph Hachey

Sorry, I wasn't being totally clear. What I meant was gi guys don't strongly oppose ALSO training nogi. Yes, a lot of them would oppose solely training nogi, myself included.

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ok got you


Why is it beneficial to include some gi?

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

I can't believe you turds dragged me into this debate. Again.

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Lol. Here we go again. Eddie didn't even mean it in the straight grappling context. He is talking about jiu jitsu for mma.

My issue is just with twisting or taking pieces out of what someone says to prove a point

Marcelo uses gi grips, collar chokes, the belt, etc...he teaches it and uses it, those are facts, plain and simple, I know I can argue my point because I have factual proof on video, that's all I'm saying

Train whatever makes you happy, no gi only, gi only, 63% gi, whatever, just use facts when you can, ignoring them doesnt help anybody

I will say this, and this is an opinion, not a fact, lol, over the years I believe the vocal "no gi only" guys have become more close minded than the Gi guys when it comes to training which is crazy to me, but its just an observation

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

I can't believe you turds dragged me into this debate. Again.

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Boom

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

Joseph, what is your goal set regarding grappling?

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I do jiu jitsu for the love of jiu jitsu. I want to be able to train and compete in jiu jitsu as much as possible. If you're closed to training in the gi, you're missing out on an entire aspect of jiu jitsu as well as a lot of training and competition opportunities. I don't know what the competition realm looks like in your region, but up here in Toronto, you would miss out on more than half of the opportunities to compete since our tournaments are either gi and nogi (albeit with smaller brackets) or only gi.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

Link?

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Can't link on my phone, just search Marcelo vs Faria, its from like 2 weeks ago, Faria in a blue Gi I believe, Marcelo is white as always

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Originally Posted by VIVIANO

ok got you


Why is it beneficial to include some gi?

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See below:

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Originally Posted by Joseph Hachey

If you're closed to training in the gi, you're missing out on an entire aspect of jiu jitsu as well as a lot of training and competition opportunities. I don't know what the competition realm looks like in your region, but up here in Toronto, you would miss out on more than half of the opportunities to compete since our tournaments are either gi and nogi (albeit with smaller brackets) or only gi.

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For me the whole appeal of training BJJ was that the Gracie's made a really good case for BJJ being the most effective way to win a fight in the early UFC days.

to do things that aren't the most effective way to prepare you for a real fight seems counter productive to me. Obviously you have to balance that with not doing techniques that make it impossible to spar everynight....i.e. not slamming, not training on concrete, not grabbing the balls :) b/c frequent live rolling is one of the most important things in preparing for a fight.

To me, gi bjj relies to heavily on grabbing the sleeve and collar, i think the clinching style is much more effective for avoiding strikes and controlling an opponent without a japanese kimono

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Originally Posted by Liquidrob

I will say this, and this is an opinion, not a fact, lol, over the years I believe the vocal "no gi only" guys have become more close minded than the Gi guys when it comes to training which is crazy to me, but its just an observation

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Exactly what I was trying to say.

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Originally Posted by Joseph Hachey

See below:

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so what your saying is it's a practical issue, you need to train gi to get the best sparring partners/competition?

I feel you, but for me, the solution is for everyone to drop the gi :)

Why cant people just do whatever style of bjj suits them without getting shit? In most cases they are paying customers so they have the right to train in whatever style they want. I don't like gi...its too slow for me and i trained gi for 5 years, i choose not to anymore. I like no-gi better so i choose to train no-gi only now. Why do people care how i choose to train, or what i wear to class, or how i position my legs in guard or half guard? Never understood this debate....

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Originally Posted by Joseph Hachey

Exactly what I was trying to say.

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Now, I know Rob did only no gi for quite a while (correct me if I'm wrong, Rob) and is now doing pretty much gi only. So he is qualified to speak on the subject.

I'm curious to hear how much exclusive no-gi you've done that qualifies your opinion on what exclusive no-gi training does to hinder your overall grappling ability.

I'm excited to hear all views on the subject :)