Wearing your no gi belt rank in the gi?

http://youtu.be/jaq72-rAqJU

First, The problem with asking the instructor at whatever gym we go to is that we are now saying that that instructor can decide how they want to characterize our rank. Instead of doing it ourselves, we are leaving it up to other people to define our rank. It seems that it would be in our best interest to create our own definitions, instead of leaving it up to other people.

Second, if someone doesn't know the bread cutter choke, or some of the other basic chokes I outlined, then they are not a black belt. It is like saying you are a black belt in no gi while not knowing how to do a guillotine or kimura. These are the basic foundational chokes of gi jujitsu.

Third, not understanding how to do grip breaking is like not understanding how to control someone from the top. It is an essential part of jujitsu that cannot be ignored. In fact Marcelo calls it the most important part of winning in the gi. So no gi practitioners are missing that part of the game but they want to be considered at the top level of that game by wearing the highest rank?

Fourth, Henry Akins doesn't get to decide anything about 10th planet or other jujitsu practitioners. He comes from a lineage the criticizes all other jujitsu for being too sporty. I like how everyone is now bandwagoning with him when he shits on everyone else's jujitsu. If you don't think that he has shit on the rubber guard in private then you probably don't know much about how he thinks. This is the guy that you want to use to defend your point. The same guy that would probably say that our jujitsu is crap because it doesn't follow the exact thinking of Helio or rickson. I don't want to get too much into what I've heard him say about 10th planet practitioners who have visited his gym but it hasn't been The most complementary.

Fifth, if you don't have extensive training in both, then your opinion is not heavily weighted to me. you don't go asking about brain surgery to a Neonatal nurse.

Bottom line is that people in our association are going to continue to wear the rank they have no gi in the gi. It will muddy the waters even more . But instead of dealing with it now, we will just let it slide until something big comes up and perhaps even embarrassing for us., like someone from 10 planet teaching a gi class wearing his no gi rank and having some gi practitioner come in and question all the techniques that guy is teaching. I don't think that is too far off from happening.

It's one thing for a guy to give you permission to wear rank in his class. It's another to have him say you could represent him at that rank. So instead of asking what I can wear inside of his gym, I would ask if he was comfortable with me repping his gym wearing that belt. That would show you where his real opinion lies

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Originally Posted by brent_littell

The argument that you don't need knowledge of these guards to be a competent black belt in this day and age is a bit reaching. I bet if I spoke to kron or Marcelo, they have advanced knowledge of all guards mentioned because they have to pass them. I could make a DVD on all the guards mentioned but I don't play them. You have to know them in this day and age

Let's use a hypothetical. Let's say someone trains all no gi with Eddie from white to black. He then goes to a gi school and puts on a black belt. He wouldn't have a basic understanding of grip breaking, cross chokes, Ezekiel's, bread cutters, baseball chokes, gi brabos, etc..., he wouldn't know how to pass any of the open guards that exist only in gi, like spider, lasso, lapel, etc. he might be able to bring the game into his realm in some areas, but overall would be lost. Is that guy deserving of wearing a black belt in gi?

If someone had a basic question about how to break a cross sleeve grip, he couldn't answer it. If a student asked how to pass a tripod guard, he would be at a loss. That is not a black belt. That's a guy parading another arts rank in a different art.

For the last two years, I have trained gi six days a week, and I had experience up to almost purple before that, and only now is understanding how to use the gi clicking at a high level. Sure, I could beat black belts on my first day, but so could a d1 wrestler beat many tenth planet browns. It doesn't mean they deserve the rank.

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Again, I would respectfully disagree with your point of view. I personally don't feel that knowing specific techniques determines whether you are a black belt or not, gi or no gi. To me, it's more about feel...harnessing the leverage to defeat your opponent., etc. But that's just my personal interpretation. I would guess that Rickson Gracie is not up to speed on some (if not a lot) of the techniques you had listed. Does that make his rank any less? Or outdated? There will always be newer ways to manipulate the gi to sweep and choke. Learning these is great. But I don't believe that a list of which techniques you know should be the main determining factor of your rank, gi or no gi.

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Originally Posted by Louis Ho

Again, I would respectfully disagree with your point of view. I personally don't feel that knowing specific techniques determines whether you are a black belt or not, gi or no gi. To me, it's more about feel...harnessing the leverage to defeat your opponent., etc. But that's just my personal interpretation. I would guess that Rickson Gracie is not up to speed on some (if not a lot) of the techniques you had listed. Does that make his rank any less? Or outdated? There will always be newer ways to manipulate the gi to sweep and choke. Learning these is great. But I don't believe that a list of which techniques you know should be the main determining factor of your rank, gi or no gi.

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I think knowing basics is a requirement for rank. Many items I listed are basics. I can't imagine you have promoted anyone to blue belt who doesn't know a kimura. So are you arguing from theory or reality

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Originally Posted by brent_littell

Wear a white belt then

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Didnt really answer my question but I guess the question doesnt matter because I have no interest in putting the gi on. To each their own

If a 10th planet ranked purple belt was visiting my school in Connecticut (an ATT school), where there are no 10p schools around, but he wanted to train, as we all do when we travel, and it was gi night (2 days a week it's no gi), then I would gladly insist (even let them borrow) a purple belt to train. (I only teach once a week a Judo for BJJ class). It's jiu-jitsu. It's like getting a driver's license in one state and going to another state. Honoring the license, even though the standards may be slightly different in each.

Aiseop that is an excellent point

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Originally Posted by Aiseop

If a 10th planet ranked purple belt was visiting my school in Connecticut (an ATT school), where there are no 10p schools around, but he wanted to train, as we all do when we travel, and it was gi night (2 days a week it's no gi), then I would gladly insist (even let them borrow) a purple belt to train. (I only teach once a week a Judo for BJJ class). It's jiu-jitsu. It's like getting a driver's license in one state and going to another state. Honoring the license, even though the standards may be slightly different in each.

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I see it like driving an automatic vs manual.

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Originally Posted by brent_littell

I see it like driving an automatic vs manual.

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But you don't need a seperate license to drive a manual or automatic, and what about the other way around? For someone who has only ever trained in the gi don't we honor their belt when they visit a 10th Planet School even tho they're not well versed in the system?

If (and when) I visit a 10th planet school, before I show up, I'll call the owner/instructor and tell them I'm a brown belt at an ATT school, here's my school's website. My instructor is so and so. (So far everything that I do for all schools I visit.) What is the 10th planet school going to say to me? Don't bring your ATT gi with no gi skills on the mat? Nah, welcome, have fun. Visit us again.

Now, if I were to JOIN a 10th planet school, I would honor whatever the owner/instructor decides: put me in purgatory for six months, demote me, or let me be ranked as is knowing that I am not going anywhere up in rank ANY time soon.