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03-01-2011, 05:10 PM
Andrew Maxwell

Quote:

Throughout history, humans have attempted to prove of his existence. All attempts have failed, but that does not mean he does not exist, so is it fair to say that there probably is no god?

This is the logical fallacy known as an appeal to ignorance (argumentum ad ignorantiam), it's when you reason that since something has not been proven that it must be true or when you reason since something hasn't been proven that it must be true.
03-01-2011, 05:11 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge

Sorry, don't believe the stories men wrote in the bible! The content in the book are not facts! Of course people would need help or guidance to manipulate the words, stories.

Im aware of that. which is why i made sure to mention i wasnt doing this because i thought the story was believed, but to respond to don about how i interpreted the story. Obviously a majority of the world isnt part of the christian faith.. so i wouldnt assume they would believe the Bible. lol. Sorry if it sounded like i was trying to quote that story as a proven fact to anyone.
03-01-2011, 05:12 PM
Andrew Maxwell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge

Sorry, don't believe the stories men wrote in the bible! The content in the book are not facts! Of course people would need help or guidance to manipulate the words, stories.

Some of the bibles content is proven facts. This does'nt mean it's all facts but some of it is.
03-01-2011, 05:15 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

andrew you remind me of the non-christian version of myself lol. Always making people (even those who believe what you believe) question why they think a certain way. or play the devils advocate. haha. I agree its important to always be open to question why you believe what you believe. As soon as you have to cover your ears and start convincing yourself you believe a certain way, its a good sign you've become closed minded. which is never a good thing. how can you defend your own belief if you refuse to hear the other sides opinion on it?
03-01-2011, 05:16 PM
Jason Hyatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu

1. When it comes to evolution.. for the ones who believe we started from wither a plasma or single cell of some sort. If over millions or billions of years we developed into where we are now, how did it all evolve in a way that allowed for our organs to be useful before they were arranged the way they are now.. for instance, it would be pointless for me to have eyes without nerves leading to my brain, or for me to have a butthole without intestines. So how did the evolutionary process allow for these things to develope one without the other? what would have been the point of having a heart without blood vessels? I hope this makes sense the way im wording it. For instance, Its not like our DNA was smart enough to plan evolution ahead and say "in 10 million years i want to be able to see, so i think ill start working on that now my gradually evolving the nerves and brain that will be required to use the eyes that will come around that time". And again, dont take this as a personal attack on the theory, I obviously am aware that there is an actual scientific theory to how it happened, and thats the answer im looking for. From someone who knows enough to respond in a way that makes sense and so i will be better able to understand your views.

2. For Christians, (and i have my own personal opinion on this but i would like to hear others views because i know mine isnt the only one) But how would you say it is possible that God (and im talking about the christian God of the Bible in this instance), Was able to create Satan with the ability to sin if there was no sin in God?

3. For the ones who believe we evolved from monkeys (if that is still even a theory, im not positive), How do you believe it was that monkeys remained, and humans remained, but all of the links between died off? why is there no 1/2 monkey 1/2 man, or any other percentage of man/monkey mix any longer?

http://productsearch.barnesandnoble....g=False&ugrp=2

This is the intro book used in my junior-year Evolutionary Biology class. In the years since completing my degree (biochemistry and evolutionary biology) I've fought the evolution fight a number of times. I've grown weary of doing so. I don't mean to imply that you're trying to start a fight and my intent is not to start one either. But over and over and over again I've heard people complain, criticize, and misrepresent evolutionary theory; all without ever having actually READ a single textbook on the subject. If you REALLY want to know something about evolutionary biology, the information is readily available. All it takes is a credit card and several hours of your time. I just finished re-reading the text cover-to-cover (I kept it in the bathroom. Took me about three months). There is an astounding abundance of evidence for those who are willing to put in the time to look at it.
03-01-2011, 05:19 PM
Andrew Maxwell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Hyatt

http://productsearch.barnesandnoble....g=False&ugrp=2

This is the intro book used in my junior-year Evolutionary Biology class. In the years since completing my degree (biochemistry and evolutionary biology) I've fought the evolution fight a number of times. I've grown weary of doing so. I don't mean to imply that you're trying to start a fight and my intent is not to start one either. But over and over and over again I've heard people complain, criticize, and misrepresent evolutionary theory; all without ever having actually READ a single textbook on the subject. If you REALLY want to know something about evolutionary biology, the information is readily available. All it takes is a credit card and several hours of your time. I just finished re-reading the text cover-to-cover (I kept it in the bathroom. Took me about three months). There is an astounding abundance of evidence for those who are willing to put in the time to look at it.

Very awsome! Thanks for the link!!
03-01-2011, 05:24 PM
Pete Daly

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu

Ok, so i THINK i understand what you are saying. but let me make sure. What you are suggesting is that the reason we dont do certain "immoral" things. (I'll just use the example of cheating in this scenario), is because we have learned the benefits of working together. And by not betraying each other or the person we have chose to be with, it will ultimately lead to more of a unison and cooperation of the species overall. Therefor leading to, for lack of a better terminology, "power in numbers" because we are all working together. So in a sense, we are looking out for others best interest, because it would ultimately be better for us also (seeing as though that means we would work together) is that correct?

That's kind of correct. The people who had those morals built in genetically passed those genes down, and the people who did not have them did not procreate.
03-01-2011, 05:25 PM
Jason Hyatt

@ Andrew: Any time. :)
03-01-2011, 05:26 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Hyatt

http://productsearch.barnesandnoble....g=False&ugrp=2

This is the intro book used in my junior-year Evolutionary Biology class. In the years since completing my degree (biochemistry and evolutionary biology) I've fought the evolution fight a number of times. I've grown weary of doing so. I don't mean to imply that you're trying to start a fight and my intent is not to start one either. But over and over and over again I've heard people complain, criticize, and misrepresent evolutionary theory; all without ever having actually READ a single textbook on the subject. If you REALLY want to know something about evolutionary biology, the information is readily available. All it takes is a credit card and several hours of your time. I just finished re-reading the text cover-to-cover (I kept it in the bathroom. Took me about three months). There is an astounding abundance of evidence for those who are willing to put in the time to look at it.

Thanks for the link. my mom works at a college so hopefully she can get me this one. If not i'll try to order it. And Im glad you didnt take it the wrong way. I really do want to know all the sides. If nothing else just for my own personal growth in my beliefs. I look at it like the whole 10th planet/BJJ jiujitsu thing.. Even if people claim BJJ is the way to go, and 10th planet is worthless.. I never understood what harm there was in learning it... if nothing else, to know how to defend if one of your opponents is knowledgeable in it. I like knowing as much as i can about as many religions (or points of view on any subject for that matter) as i can. But i'll def check out the book! thanks again
03-01-2011, 05:29 PM
Pete Daly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Maxwell

This is the logical fallacy known as an appeal to ignorance (argumentum ad ignorantiam), it's when you reason that since something has not been proven that it must be true or when you reason since something hasn't been proven that it must be true.

The point is probability, it's not a matter of truth. And it's when something is false, then the opposite must be true by default, which is not what i'm claiming.

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