Is anybody else known for the Turtle Guard, besides Telles?

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Originally Posted by jeron

Neil Melanson is definitely known for being a proponent of turtle guard. He's gone as far as to call it the future of MMA. He's got a DVD coming out at some point.

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Very cool. I like Neil Melanson. Thanks for the heads up! "The future of MMA" is a hard one to believe though. I'd have to see why he believes that..and it would have to be pretty convincing :)

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Brent Littell is a turtle guard master :)

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I'd love to see Brent's take on the turtle guard. A private lesson may be in order!

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Originally Posted by jeron

Really if your looking for quality No Gi Turtle reversals the best place to look is folkstyle wrestling. Those guys have been fighting the No Gi leg ride and working to standup/reverse from that position for a century. Check out the granby school of wrestling on Youtube. You have to filter out a lot of techniques because you aren't allowed to lock your hands on the mat in folk style wrestling but theres still a TON of material.

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Very good idea. Ill check it out.

Turtle is much safer to play in mma now a days, back in the old days you would catch some knees and soccer kicks

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Originally Posted by Brent Smith

Very cool. I like Neil Melanson. Thanks for the heads up! "The future of MMA" is a hard one to believe though. I'd have to see why he believes that..and it would have to be pretty convincing :)

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I believe his argument is that 1) every minute your on your back in MMA your losing the fight so the risk of giving your back up in order to scramble to your feet is more worth it
2) No gi turtle escapes are still pretty misunderstood and underutilized in MMA and submission grappling
3) The lack of friction from both competitors being shirtless (in MMA at least) makes a lot of escapes from your opponent having both his hooks in a lot easier, also reducing the risky factor.

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Originally Posted by jeron

I believe his argument is that 1) every minute your on your back in MMA your losing the fight so the risk of giving your back up in order to scramble to your feet is more worth it
2) No gi turtle escapes are still pretty misunderstood and underutilized in MMA and submission grappling
3) The lack of friction from both competitors being shirtless (in MMA at least) makes a lot of escapes from your opponent having both his hooks in a lot easier, also reducing the risky factor.

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Hmmm very interesting. Well I'm a fan of the turtle guard so if I can utilize anything he shows ill do it.

David Loiseau (sp?) used to give up his back in MMA to escape. He did it all the time. I can't remember which fights specifically right now. I wanna say look at his fight with Rich Franklin and with Evan Tanner.

He gave his back against Franklin but took a 5 round beating for it if I remember correctly

So since there seems to be much more turtle guard knowledge than I expected, the only thing I would be afraid of is getting nailed with that D'arce choke. Is the best thing to do is hand fight or is there something better?

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Originally Posted by Brent Smith

So since there seems to be much more turtle guard knowledge than I expected, the only thing I would be afraid of is getting nailed with that D'arce choke. Is the best thing to do is hand fight or is there something better?

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Look carefully at that melanson video I posted. I like his body/hand positioning the most for no gi turtle. The points of your elbows pulled tightly into your waistline w/ all of your body weight resting forward onto your head. This creates a natural downward slope to your back that forces your opponent to keep a lot of his weight off of you to avoid sliding off.
The biggest thing w/ no gi turtle position is to be constantly in motion. Make your opponent work to stay on top of you. If he has time to settle he has time to think and to set up shit like darce chokes.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

David Loiseau (sp?) used to give up his back in MMA to escape. He did it all the time. I can't remember which fights specifically right now. I wanna say look at his fight with Rich Franklin and with Evan Tanner.

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Jacare hit an amazing four points reversal from the turtle position against drysdale in their superfight

I go to my knees and turtle up to escape side control regularly. In fact, it's my top way out of bad positions. And Brent gave me a couple of crucial details in a private lesson that have made my movements exponentially better and more efficient. Any time you can spend with with him will be worth much more than he charges you.

Regarding Telles' style, it is very dependent on Gi grips and he even says in his set that it's more of a position for the Gi game. He is comfortable hanging out in those positions, and it appears that feels that way because he can control and manipulate his opponents hand positioning via the sleeves grips.

In my experience (which is to be taken with a grain of salt, I suppose) turtle is great for no Gi, but it needs to be more of a guard repositioning strategy. If you hang out there you can start getting in trouble. There are a couple of guys in my gym that will snap on Japanese Neckties/darces from there and one that will jump into the truck during transition. You gotta be wise to what your opponent is capable of. Of course, if you make any mistakes with your elbow positioning or your knees there is opportunity for your opponent to get a hook in, as well.

The turtle idea that I use most often is actually something I picked up from Saulo Ribeiro's DVD. He calls it "The Running Man Escape." It's a guard recomposition that he uses. Excellent stuff and very high percentage for me. Usually lands me in guard with an arm trapped to the mat.