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Like I said, I'm glad I've always been competing at intermediate now, the first few tournaments were a little rocky, but now my submission game is as strong as my wrestling. I see the point about being used to competition and everything but I feel like there's a difference between being a lifelong wrestling stud with collegiate experience and a high school level wrestler. Just my 2 cents
I disagree. Wrestlers, more often than not, have excellent base, which makes them difficult to sweep, they have solid control from the top, making escapes and reversals difficult, and if they're not clueless, they can play a very good stall game which makes attacks from the guard, in general, difficult (so, they score a takedown and stall in guard for the win).Quote:
Originally Posted by hespectnogi
Is wrestling experience the same as jits experience? No. I agree with you on that. However, I think it does make a difference. The fact that you won your first match shows that you probably were in the right division.
I feel wrestlers kinda float in the middle, b/c their bodies are used to the balance and they do have a sense of control, but at the same time don't know any technical routes for submissions and passes, I think it really depends on how butt hurt your opponent is about it, but regardless I think they should be considered not complete beginner but not really fair for intermediate either more like between a good white belt and a blue belt imo
I can only speak from the perspective of watching my kids do Judo/BJJ pre wrestling, and post wrestling. My daughter didn't stand a chance against this other young girl in her class who would tap her effortlessly. Then she spent 9 months wrestling Folkstyle, Freestyle and Greco-Roman, taking a break from Judo and BJJ. When we went back to that same club she faced the same girl and did get thrown but manhandled the girl on the ground and tapped her with a Rear Naked choke in a stunning amount of time. It certainly makes a difference.
Grappling is grappling. While it may not give you a direct knowledge of nogi bjj it gives you a basic knowledge of grappling and how the body moves. As well as better wrestling skills that can come in handy not just takedowns but how to ride somebody in side-mount, mount, rear mount etc . . .
I wrestled in high school(shitty Canadian high school wrestling, not quite the same caliber as in the states) and counted it towards my experience level for tournaments. The wrestling definitely helped me pick-up stuff and learn faster than others. And I took fifteen years off between my high school wrestling to the time I started bjj.
Wrestling is a style of grappling. However, this discussion of whether or not it 'counts' reveals the problems with the entire winning-oriented mindset that currently afflicts our sport. Who should you compete against? People who will give you good matches that will help you both improve your skills and competition comfort level. The number of years that you've been doing anything, jiujitsu or wrestling, is irrelevant. Geo could, if he followed the letter of the rules, still compete at intermediate since he has less than 4 years of training, but what would be the point?
In my opinion, we as a community need to remember to approach BJJ as a martial art; it is a path towards a greater self. Medals are just hunks of metal, and belts are just dyed cloth. Neither contains intrinsic value; they exist only as symbols of things that do. The journey, the self-discovery, the mental and physical strength, the camaraderie, the overcoming of personal demons... these are real things with real value that you will gain from this 'sport'. Train hard and push yourself for yourself. Competing to your utmost effort is a gift both to yourself and to your opponent, with whom you share so much common ground by very definition. You will become better, stronger, faster, and you will know yourself more fully even as you continue to grow and change.
Yes.
Very well said brother. We are on the same page with this one. Ever since Cora started competing a little over 2 yrs ago, she only did 1 tournament as intermediate, every one since then has always been at expert or advanced. Why? Because she is trained to fight the best. We traveled all over TX and to CA just to find the best kids to compete with. But really she is competing against herself. She has fought all the tough kids in TX so now we looking to go other places we havent been before. Its never about the medals or belts, have plenty of those collecting dust. We just looking for a tough hard fight. So stay tune, she might pop up in your neck of the woods....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Amir Allam
I'll be honest, that was some deep and articulate shit, thanks for the motivation brothaQuote:
Originally Posted by Amir Allam
I agree and disagree. Your inexperience in jiu jitsu makes it feel unfair, but I swear from competing against experienced wrestlers that you guys are way tougher to handle than you probably think you are. For the first few comps it may seem ufaair, but you're going to improve drastically in a short amount of time.
I think there are a few reasons why your experience is worth a lot. mentally you're probably much tougher than your average guy, and you probably have more experience competing. Wrestlers are hard as fuck to sweep, and you guys have ridiculous base, pressure, and don't concede sweeps easily. I don't think takedowns are all that translates. i think the mental toughness translates, and I think your ability to attack front headlocks, leg rides, whizzers, underhooks, gable grips, are all big advantages. Certainly novice is too small. At least beginner. I don't really believe in sand bagging, so that's a whole other discussion, but we have a guy that wrestled 4 years in high school that just came to our gym and he could definitely compete at the blue belt level, simply because of his top game.
Remember, no-gi isn't technically BJJ. You're doing submission wrestling, and things that you might have experience with in wrestling are going to help you a lot. I think that fact is key. If you were in the gi you'd be in the white belt division, but since you're no-gi, they want to consider all disciplines. Sambo, BJJ, wrestling, all factor into the experience level. You're basically doing MGA (mixed grappling arts) when you do no-gi.
I think there's a lot of crossover in technique that you just may have no seen yet. As a wrestler you're already geared to have a nasty darce/guillotine and front headlock attack game. You'll probably have a nasty truck game. You'll probably have a nasty leg drag and back attack game. Once you see some techniques I bet they'll start to gel and make way more sense to you faster than most people.
Most people with 3 months of training could not even win a match in the intermediate division at all. The fact that you were able to takedown and control from the top for long enough to win says a lot.
You're going to be super happy about it when you grow and learn way more than anyone else that's starting at the same time as you. Just hang in there man.