How do we Handle Professional Jelousy?

The point is not how much of a nice person he is, the point is that he lied about his rank in BJJ so he could get a rank in 10th Planet.

The fact that he was using the 10th Planet logo on his site is bad enough, but a couple of months back I noticed he'd been grading people. I remember a bit on his site that said congratulations to the gradings some of his guys got. One was: Purple Belt (10th Planet Blue Belt). It meant that he had been giving rank in 10th Planet when he wasn't of sufficient rank, or affiliated.

I'm a 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu Blue Belt, and if I were running a school that wasn't officially affiliated, I still wouldn't dare to use the logo. Yeah, I'd say I was a 10th Planet Blue Belt, but the way in which is was used implied that it was an official 10th Planet school.

Hanno said he was a "pending" 10th Planet Brown Belt. He actually claimed this, and Eddie came out and said that he was denied this.

End of the day, it doesn't matter how nice of a person you are, the rules apply to everybody.

EDIT: I watched some Stargate Universe in the making of this post, and Chris beat me to it.

To be honest, I couldn't care if he had a pink belt in ballet !! Hanno is still a great guy and a great teacher. My "ground game" has improved 200% since I started training with him. And yes, I will defend him till the end - maybe because I know him and the person he is. Maybe he was also conned into believing the belt he earned was legit, it was apparently in the USA after all. Maybe he was as embarresed as you were when he found this out and was to shamed to let it be known - this doesn't take away from the fact that he still is a great teacher and was probably the greatest ambassador to 10th Planet in South Africa I've ever met.

These Cape Town guys are unbelievable. This issue is so black and white it's almost laughable.

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Originally Posted by Marius

probably the greatest ambassador to 10th Planet in South Africa I've ever met.

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What other 10th Planet ambassadors have you met ANYWHERE, let alone South Africa?

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Originally Posted by Marius

My "ground game" has improved 200% since I started training with him.

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Possibly, but when you started, had you done any BJJ before?

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Originally Posted by Marius

Maybe he was also conned into believing the belt he earned was legit

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See: Brandon Quick. He also said this. I call BS

All Hanno had to do was say he was a white belt when inquiring about affiliation and not to advertise as a 10th Planet school when he was clearly not and all of this could have been avoided.

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Originally Posted by Jay JC Chow

What other 10th Planet ambassadors have you met ANYWHERE, let alone South Africa?

Not really - I've only been critisized for using 10th planet teqniques or "10th planet shit" as they call it over here


Possibly, but when you started, had you done any BJJ before?

I trained with another "no Ghi" school who claims to use BJJ as their base

See: Brandon Quick. He also said this. I call BS

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Elaborate please

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Originally Posted by Jay JC Chow

What other 10th Planet ambassadors have you met ANYWHERE, let alone South Africa?


Not really - I've only been critisized for using 10th planet teqniques or "10th planet shit" as they call it over here


Possibly, but when you started, had you done any BJJ before?


I trained with another "no Ghi" school who claims to use BJJ as their base

See: Brandon Quick. He also said this. I call BS

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Please elaborate

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Originally Posted by Jon Helton

All Hanno had to do was say he was a white belt when inquiring about affiliation and not to advertise as a 10th Planet school when he was clearly not and all of this could have been avoided.

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This!

Hanno may be the nicest guy in the world but he lied to me and told me he got his bjj black belt in 1997 in New York. He even sent me the certificate but it was for a JJJ black belt. So I asked him again, are you a bjj black belt or jjj black belt? and he insisted that he was a bjj black belt. Then I told him in an email that I would put a hold on his affiliation until I got solid proof of his bjj black belt, but I never did so I decided to not return any of his emails until he sent solid proof. One email after another came, a bunch of emails asking me what I was gonna do about his affiliation and he sent me a bunch of different testimonials from people backing up his character but no proof. So I just ignored every single email hoping he would get the hint that I can't have anyone repping 10th Planet if they are lying about their rank. But he kept sending emails and I kept ignoring them hoping to avoid what's going on now, a public checking.

If he would have just told me the truth about his bjj rank everything would have been fine. Or if he would've just understood that when someone doesn't return any of your emails it means that you should just leave it alone.

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Originally Posted by Marius

Please elaborate

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Elaborate on what? I don't need to, the situation is what it is.

so in short no 10th planet in south africa no white belt course no nothing the big boss has spoken lets all move on i'm sure we all got some training and drills that can be done

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Hanno may be the nicest guy in the world but he lied to me and told me he got his bjj black belt in 1997 in New York. He even sent me the certificate but it was for a JJJ black belt. So I asked him again, are you a bjj black belt or jjj black belt? and he insisted that he was a bjj black belt. Then I told him in an email that I would put a hold on his affiliation until I got solid proof of his bjj black belt, but I never did so I decided to not return any of his emails until he sent solid proof. One email after another came, a bunch of emails asking me what I was gonna do about his affiliation and he sent me a bunch of different testimonials from people backing up his character but no proof. So I just ignored every single email hoping he would get the hint that I can't have anyone repping 10th Planet if they are lying about their rank. But he kept sending emails and I kept ignoring them hoping to avoid what's going on now, a public checking.

If he would have just told me the truth about his bjj rank everything would have been fine. Or if he would've just understood that when someone doesn't return any of your emails it means that you should just leave it alone.

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If you Respect this System and believe in it then When MASTER EDDIE says something thats the end of it. So when he says this guys not part of this system yet hes misrepresenting himself and claiming to be well thats sad, there are lots of us working our way to the point where we can fly the 10th planet flag and he should have been man enough to do the same. Enough said about all this and everyone trying to defend Hanno well your poorly misinformed and it has been cleared up so leave it be because Master Eddie has spoken....

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Originally Posted by Marius

To be honest, I couldn't care if he had a pink belt in ballet !! Hanno is still a great guy and a great teacher. My "ground game" has improved 200% since I started training with him. And yes, I will defend him till the end - maybe because I know him and the person he is. Maybe he was also conned into believing the belt he earned was legit, it was apparently in the USA after all. Maybe he was as embarresed as you were when he found this out and was to shamed to let it be known - this doesn't take away from the fact that he still is a great teacher and was probably the greatest ambassador to 10th Planet in South Africa I've ever met.

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So you don't care that he lied to the man he wanted to consider his teacher and mentor, but you think he'll "keep it real" for you?

So its either for the past 13 yrs he was unaware that his BJJ Rank was a fraud, or that he tried to lie and convince everyone around him he was something he was clearly not? I'm not sure what is worse lying to everyone or for the past 13 years or not having the sense to realize you were duped. Really no one called out Hanno "BJJ Instructor" in all this time for promoting other fake belts? The BJJ community is still relatively close, how close do you think it was back in 1997.
Ironically he's claiming to have gotten it while he was in Rochester, Ny ;) Where I've lived all but 4 years of my life. I've been a big part of the Martial Arts Community here for 22 of my 26 years in the Martial Arts. There were no BJJ schools in Rochester until 98-99. And that is when Kyle Saunders move here as a purple belt and opened his own school. My program was the only grappling(Judo, Sambo and Shingitai Jujitsu, MMA and submission grappling)program in the area that wasn't traditional Japanese JuJitsu or Sport Judo. If there were a BJJ Black Belt in the area then I would have been learning from him.

All good. Just one request - Master Eddie - please give Hanno the opportunity then to start with a white belt and work through the ranks - he did provide proof of his JJJ black belt which should show that he has put the time in to work for a grading. I can assure you that he would quickly proof to you and everyone that he is truly devoted to your teachings and when he does then make it to his 10th planet Brown belt - cause he will given the chance - you will have a true asset in him. Everybody deserves a chance - nobodies perfect.

I don't make that decision but...

He lied. Multiple times. The End.

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Originally Posted by Marius

All good. Just one request - Master Eddie - please give Hanno the opportunity then to start with a white belt and work through the ranks - he did provide proof of his JJJ black belt which should show that he has put the time in to work for a grading. I can assure you that he would quickly proof to you and everyone that he is truly devoted to your teachings and when he does then make it to his 10th planet Brown belt - cause he will given the chance - you will have a true asset in him. Everybody deserves a chance - nobodies perfect.

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::Facepalm::

I met this girl once who told me that I was the father of her child. I never remembered her but with so many drunken nights, who's to say what happened where? So I gave her the benefit of the doubt and we had a paternity test. It turns out that she lied and we never had sex. Upon discovering this she turned to me and said, "Well, sorry about that. So do you want to start over and go out on a date?"

(not a true story, but actually an analogy veiled inside of a false anecdote)

Anyways - going to bed now - 5 to midnight here already..Was an intersting topic. I'll still continue to learn as many 10th planet teqniques as possible - whether Hanno or Youtube teaches me - and I will continue to get flack for using the teqnique during comps as you must continue with the good work on your side. Good night.

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Originally Posted by Marius

Anyways - going to bed now - 5 to midnight here already..Was an intersting topic. I'll still continue to learn as many 10th planet teqniques as possible - whether Hanno or Youtube teaches me - and I will continue to get flack for using the teqnique during comps as you must continue with the good work on your side. Good night.

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you should probably disasociate your self with this guy and work for your own affiliation.

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Originally Posted by AJ Camacho

I met this girl once who told me that I was the father of her child. I never remembered her but with so many drunken nights, who's to say what happened where? So I gave her the benefit of the doubt and we had a paternity test. It turns out that she lied and we never had sex. Upon discovering this she turned to me and said, "Well, sorry about that. So do you want to start over and go out on a date?"

(not a true story, but actually an analogy veiled inside of a false anecdote)

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Damn that would have been an awesome true story...... I could have read that shit for 4 or 5 pages more.

man oh man this has been blown out of proportion!!! Even at its worst its the following He Lied- He got Caught - Eddie tells him to bugger off- the end....

Its like a combination of a soap opera and a poorly dubbed Chinese movie=

"you have dishonoured your family and master and for this you must die and your heart burnt as an offering to the Kung fu gods..
Seriously.... get over it. some dude has lied about some things...

The sun will rise tomorrow in the East and the birds will sing. And the 10th planet Jiu Jitsu thread about Hanno Vermeulen will be 50 posts longer..... And everybody will feel so good about themselves for defending Eddie Bravo's Honour. Eddie is a big man, who has faced far greater adversity than trivia like this. and will more than likely be producing the crap out of some music totally oblivious to Hanno or any of us. PERSPECTIVE.....

If you have never lied about anything by all means lambaste the guy all you want. otherwise just quit it.... its really getting old....

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Originally Posted by Marius

All good. Just one request - Master Eddie - please give Hanno the opportunity then to start with a white belt and work through the ranks - he did provide proof of his JJJ black belt which should show that he has put the time in to work for a grading. I can assure you that he would quickly proof to you and everyone that he is truly devoted to your teachings and when he does then make it to his 10th planet Brown belt - cause he will given the chance - you will have a true asset in him. Everybody deserves a chance - nobodies perfect.

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Its like you cheated on your midterm and are asking for a retake.. I most definitely don't make the decisions but I think this one is kinda obvious. Just the nature of the game..

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Originally Posted by Pourya Samari

Its like you cheated on your midterm, got caught and then asked for a retake.. I most definitely don't make the decisions but I think this one is kinda obvious. Just the nature of the game..

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Fixed ;)

Amen - The end

I would love to find out this was a prank. The most entertaining prank 10th Planet has ever been apart of. But I'm sure I'm not alone.

Pretty unrelated, but still relevant. As to not cause confusion, should I change my belt to white, as I am not from a 10p school?

I feel like the more I learn about this situation, the more I think my former seko was lying about his credentials, too.

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Originally Posted by evulh

Pretty unrelated, but still relevant. As to not cause confusion, should I change my belt to white, as I am not from a 10p school?

I feel like the more I learn about this situation, the more I think my former seko was lying about his credentials, too.

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That is up to you. I'd message Eddie about it, detailing where you got the blue from, and try and do some research into your "seko". If it turns out he is not legitimate, then I would change it to white! Kudos for asking, by the way

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Originally Posted by Jay JC Chow

That is up to you. I'd message Eddie about it, detailing where you got the blue from, and try and do some research into your "seko". If it turns out he is not legitimate, then I would change it to white! Kudos for asking, by the way

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thanks JC. Ill message Eddie, in the meantime, I'll just change it to white. Its his website, his school, and everything I learned about 10p, came from books and videos. My old instructor looked at me like I was insane when I brought up rubber guard. that was really my first clue into what he was saying might not be on the up and up.

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Originally Posted by evulh

Pretty unrelated, but still relevant. As to not cause confusion, should I change my belt to white, as I am not from a 10p school?

I feel like the more I learn about this situation, the more I think my former seko was lying about his credentials, too.

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seko is a watch that should be your first clue.

Soke is "head of the family" but maybe I should have known anyway.

I also realized I misspelled the word. sorry, I'm a douche.

First of all, did any of you tell Hanno that he was not affiliated. it sounds to me like you spoke amongst yourselves but forget to let Hanno know therefore he carried on as if it was still pending. Eddie mentioned that you sent an email to Aldo, (my favourite shoe store by the way) but no mention that you sent a mail to Hanno.
I find it appalling that your so called professional company is run by a bunch of monkeys that look to Eddie as if he is God. its eddie this and eddie that... OMG grow up.I know his hairstyle is from like BC but ....

I sense that there is way too much testosterone in the room.

ok obviously you dont care for 10thPlanet so very simply put see your way out of here your teacher is a fraud end of story had he been honest about his belt status we wouldnt be having this conversation and by the way the real question is did anyone tell him he was affiliated in the first place also quit being a coward and use your real name "steamroller"

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Originally Posted by steamroller

First of all, did any of you tell Hanno that he was not affiliated. it sounds to me like you spoke amongst yourselves but forget to let Hanno know therefore he carried on as if it was still pending. Eddie mentioned that you sent an email to Aldo, (my favourite shoe store by the way) but no mention that you sent a mail to Hanno.
I find it appalling that your so called professional company is run by a bunch of monkeys that look to Eddie as if he is God. its eddie this and eddie that... OMG grow up.I know his hairstyle is from like BC but ....

I sense that there is way too much testosterone in the room.

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Can you read??? The man LIED about his rank, not 1x, not 2x, but 3x to Eddie alone, not counting how many times he lied to Alder as well. You guys from Cape Town keep skirting around the issue. THE MAN LIED TO EDDIE!, the head of the system he was applying for. You should be appalled at him, not the people that are defending the system that Hanno himself was trying to become a part of. Shame on you!

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Hanno may be the nicest guy in the world but he lied to me and told me he got his bjj black belt in 1997 in New York. He even sent me the certificate but it was for a JJJ black belt. So I asked him again, are you a bjj black belt or jjj black belt? and he insisted that he was a bjj black belt. Then I told him in an email that I would put a hold on his affiliation until I got solid proof of his bjj black belt, but I never did so I decided to not return any of his emails until he sent solid proof. One email after another came, a bunch of emails asking me what I was gonna do about his affiliation and he sent me a bunch of different testimonials from people backing up his character but no proof. So I just ignored every single email hoping he would get the hint that I can't have anyone repping 10th Planet if they are lying about their rank. But he kept sending emails and I kept ignoring them hoping to avoid what's going on now, a public checking.

If he would have just told me the truth about his bjj rank everything would have been fine. Or if he would've just understood that when someone doesn't return any of your emails it means that you should just leave it alone.

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What Master Eddie said. All; we JUST WENT THROUGH THIS WITH A GUY ON THE FORUM!! If you can't prove quickly and concretely what your rank is, either via a credible instructor, photographic proof, or some other means that you're a legit BJJ BLACK BELT, don't pursue a brown belt. Come in as white with humility and earn your successive rankings. If you're a LEGIT BJJ Black Belt, it should take you no time to prove your mettle to Eddie and "The Council". Prior to The Joker controversy, we had BQ. You can't back pedal! In this day and age of instantaneous information, you can't hide the truth for long. Eddie has always been cool with me, and all of us that are moons either came in as white, or had proof of our rank and were promoted up by Eddie. Additionally (speaking for myself) I was SO concerned with doing it the right way, I took my time and worked with Eddie and some of the moons regularly to check myself. Only after Eddie gave me the ok and started referring people to me, did I publicly state I was the Moon in the area. Sorry Cape Town guys, we're not trying to be dicks, just protecting our organization and founder.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

::Facepalm::

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+1 and a *giggle*.

I don't get you cape town guys. In any other profession, if someone lies about their credentials they get blasted by the community. If you're going to a neuro surgeon and it turns out he only went to school to be a veterinarian, do you continue to go to him cause he's a nice guy and studied the manuals inside and out? I know its not quite the same situation but its the same precedent.
Eddie worked hard to get through BJJ and received his BB. He worked his ass off to get this system to where it is today and for someone to try to skip to the head of the line on false merit is pretty damn disrespectful in my eyes. I'm by no means a sheep and I don't hold eddie in a godlike sense like you suggest but I sure as hell respect what he's gone through to get where he is today.

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Originally Posted by John Roderick

What Master Eddie said. All; we JUST WENT THROUGH THIS WITH A GUY ON THE FORUM!! If you can't prove quickly and concretely what your rank is, either via a credible instructor, photographic proof, or some other means that you're a legit BJJ BLACK BELT, don't pursue a brown belt. Come in as white with humility and earn your successive rankings. If you're a LEGIT BJJ Black Belt, it should take you no time to prove your mettle to Eddie and "The Council". Prior to The Joker controversy, we had BQ. You can't back pedal! In this day and age of instantaneous information, you can't hide the truth for long. Eddie has always been cool with me, and all of us that are moons either came in as white, or had proof of our rank and were promoted up by Eddie. Additionally (speaking for myself) I was SO concerned with doing it the right way, I took my time and worked with Eddie and some of the moons regularly to check myself. Only after Eddie gave me the ok and started referring people to me, did I publicly state I was the Moon in the area. Sorry Cape Town guys, we're not trying to be dicks, just protecting our organization and founder.

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straight up john said it all....hard work and time is the only way trying to cheat or lie will never workout for you

I'd just like to add my 2c right at the end here, and ask all 10th Planet members to not judge the rest of the Cape Town/South African bjj schools on this one situation. There are those of use who have instructors that have recognized ranks under well known black belts, who can present these credentials at any time. We are really working hard to grow bjj in South Africa and it is sad how something like this can tarnish our hard work and make the rest of us look bad to international eyes.

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Originally Posted by psykro

I'd just like to add my 2c right at the end here, and ask all 10th Planet members to not judge the rest of the Cape Town/South African bjj schools on this one situation. There are those of use who have instructors that have recognized ranks under well known black belts, who can present these credentials at any time. We are really working hard to grow bjj in South Africa and it is sad how something like this can tarnish our hard work and make the rest of us look bad to international eyes.

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Damb you Gracie guys are bitter!

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Originally Posted by TheGut

Damb you Gracie guys are bitter!

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Well, your coach is toying with the legitimacy of the BJJ lineage. Yeah, I'd imagine they would be bitter over this. I don't think you really understand how big of a deal this is.