We finally got to work on the meat hook last week starting on Tuesday, but by Sunday, Cora was meathooking kids already. A couple more months, her guard will be much tighter. Don't know how we manage to put it off for so long. Kicking myself.
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We finally got to work on the meat hook last week starting on Tuesday, but by Sunday, Cora was meathooking kids already. A couple more months, her guard will be much tighter. Don't know how we manage to put it off for so long. Kicking myself.
http://generatormeme.com/media/created/xvkda0.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPr-xsQvhgw For those that hate on the rubber guard. :)
+1 David Rosado
Wow, just heard from one of my buddies who trains at a high level gym with multiple UFC fighters that their head BJJ coach hates Rubber Guard and the 10th Planet System in general. That isn't too unusual and ok we all know there are plenty of haters out there but here is the part that made me lose all respect for this very High Level Gracie Black belt...
He goes the extra mile to shut down and make an example of anyone who he sees playing the 10th planet game in his gym. That's right white belt experimenting with rubber guard, this high level black belt will call you out and shut you down in front of everyone. Purple belt playing lockdown... he'll show you too. What a dick...
Have a nice day!
Different strokes for different folks. I study the rg path more than most at my gym . some guys it works on some just stack me and I try a different path. I would rather get off my back and get to twister side control and go to work from there. I have zero luck playing wrist control closed guard from the bottom and I always threaten with rg attacks before I move to get out from the bottom.
I know it can be frustrating to have your style, or the things you like challenged, or ridiculed, but you just gotta let it go. If you have a guest running a seminar, and they're opinion is different than yours, just ignore it. There's no need to challenge it, especially in front of the class. If it works for you, then keep doing it, and ignore anyone who says differently. It's just not worth getting worked up about imho. When people tell me they don't like the Seahawks, I don't argue with them. To each their own. I've had many folks comment on things that I do, good and bad. You can't let it bother you. You do what you want, you learn what you're interested in, evolve your style in a way that you enjoy, and who cares what anyone else thinks. That's my .02 cents anyway.
You can do most anything in a gi that you can do no gi. The main difference is friction, making certain escapes/transitions, more difficult, but far from impossible in my experience. In fact, I've worn on my gi on occasion to nogi training. I like my gi. It's comfortable. Also I can wipe sweat off my forehead, lmao! I dunno what you strictly no gi guys/gals do to deal with sweat...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurzy
We let it burn our eyes and drip off our chins and elbows..and then we spread it to each other and leave lakes on the mat.
I prefer to waterboard kids with my sweat :-)
Lmao! That's the true secret of the gi! It's a glorified sweat rag. Also patches make me better. That's the theory I'm working off anyway...
I get this in class some times too. Rolling, I will have a tight new york, taking my time to move forward on a path but it can be slow because I'm not that good at it yet. I just ignore it and try to keep going. Funny that if I go for a twister, they love it.
hahah exactly!
Well folks I've been working without Rubberguard and lockdown for a few months now. I've basically been told that I can't get my blue at this gym if I'm going to use those techniques. So I thought I'd try just going without it for awhile. It did help open me up to other parts of my game at first, like more open guard. But it fucking kills me when I have a guy broken down in guard and I can't use my RG to Oma or when I have someone in half guard and I really need that lockdown to keep them off me.
I think I'm about to just snap and drive a lot further to go train at another gym that won't be so ignorant. It's breaking my heart a little since this issue aside I like the gym, it's a few blocks away (which makes it easy to get in often) and the students are a good bunch of guys that I would miss. I have improved greatly in my short time there but I have also lost a big part of my game that I love.
It came to head today when I asked my coach if it would at least be ok if I used all my techniques in a tournament setting even if not at the gym. I could just feel the frustration and annoyance that I even asked the question. He more or less said he's rather have me compete then not but that if I use those techniques he'll be yelling at me to stop doing them. Oh yes and along with all the usual that shit doesn't work, why would you do that etc.
I feel like I'm betraying myself if I just give in and give up on things I love. Would you guys let it go?
Hell no, id switch gyms. If the instructor is that closed minded then i would head elsewhere regardless of how close it was. But really its up to you, if you are not happy there then go, but if you are minus the RG LD thing then stay. In the end it is your decisionQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris Odell (Datsusara)
Andrew, yeah that's probably the way it's going to end up. I guess I'm just venting and making sure my thoughts are reasonable. It's really a shame and I wish I could just get it into this guys head that using those techniques can be legit and useful, but he's more stubborn than I so that's the way it is. I hear Kaijin in Santa Cruz is somewhat more chill so I might head down there.
I really wish I could train at a 10th Planet or at SBGI. I went to 10th Planet Portland lately which was great and I also visited my old friends at the SBGI HQ there and they were quite fine with my RG and LD etc.. (even though some SBGI instructors will give you some shit about it now and then like James from the UK mentioned, but it's all in good humor).
Can you submit him with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Odell (Datsusara)
He probably thinks its weak and is telling you not to use it because he thinks it will slow your progress and make you worse than his stuff.... but he is going about communicating that with you in an backwards manner. its hard to tell the intent that this guy brings to the table without hearing the tone of his voice.
you could do drop ins at the further gym and work rubber guard there and at this guys gym just work everything else then do what ever works best for you in tournaments. if he doesnt do rubberguard you wouldnt be listening to his advice in tournaments anyway what does it matter if he is yelling "stop that" or not knowing what to yell to advance you to the next rubber guard control position...
its a shitty position to be caught in, do you want to train under someone who makes you feel poorly?
Bump that dude....he clearly cares more about his ego than your progression as a player. I'm not a big deep half player, but if one of my guys was developing a mean deep half, I'd most definitely not try to stop him.
Find a new school, or train on your own in your basement or something if you have to. Anyone who wants to put limitations on your potential is no good for you.
Find another god damn school homie. Jesus christ mate, lifes waaaay too short to not go after that which you love. Mate, pack your bags and be excited for the future as it is bright. You stay where you are and I guarantee a whole lot of darkness bro. Move on, train on go get it. I actually had to do it myself. I wasted three years training with the same bozo mentality, then decided to pursue 10PJJ and have never looked back since. My actions, student performances in comp and my own comp performances won most of the BJJ community over so it was so worth it. Move on!
I would find a different school. I wouldn't give up rubber guard or other unorthodox techniques in my game. Part of the fun is the freedom to explore and express, moment to moment. You should be able to decide what does or doesn't work for you, through your own logic and experience.
I don't train in a 10p school - I occasionally put a bit of rubber guard or lockdown into my rolls - my instructor notices, but is happy to let me experiment. BJJ should be about finding your own style of rolling, and he knows that. That's why I stay with my gym!
Thanks all for the support and good advice y'all. This shit really kills me and it's good to hear from others that feel like I do just to be sure I'm not crazy. Looks like I'll be switching schools, maybe just do some drop ins at the old one to say hi to the students which are a good bunch guys.
I agree with all of the above, it's haters and of course what Eddie said, a lot of ignorance out there (many times stupidity) that just does not want to learn anything new or different. I always hear the arguement, "it doesn't work because you can defeat it with this or counter with that". Shit if that were the case, I guess they'd never use a triangle, either. There is a counter for everything but in my opinion rubber guard minimizes the counter options, sets up a variety of paths you can take if countered, and increases your %'s for a submission or sweep. I'd just listen to their hype, smile, and master the system. Then smile even bigger when you tap his boys out with RG. No better way to shut 'em up than show them, not tell them!
I hang out online at some music blogs for pedal steel guitar and country music in general. Lots of old timer country player wonder if Robert Randolph can even play country music on pedal steel guitar. I just chuckle under my breath and think why would he , he is making a killing playing rock music on the dang thing. Seems similar to me about the people who write off the rg. Why waste time bringing it up over and over again.
Dude, you have to remember, you are a customer. If you're not happy with your experience, stop paying for it. This guy sounds like a dick. I can understand if, for example, he teaches a specific system. In that case he wants you to learn that system, and if you're using RG, etc, than you're not using and advancing in his system. To a point, I can understand that he would want you to be using the system that he's going to be ranking you on. But that only goes so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Odell (Datsusara)
Imagine, you've been training jits for years, and you've learned a different style. You move and find a new gym, and it just so happens it's 10th P HQ! I would be willing to bet, though I could be wrong, that Eddie would want you learning, and using his system. I would HOPE that he wouldn't bash your old system, but would encourage you to play with RG and the new path, lockdown, etc.
I've had my coach tell me I'm not allowed to play guard, because my top game was way behind my guard game. But that limitation was directly aimed at addressing a deficiency in my game. And it was temporary. If your coach isn't limiting you for a specific reason (like what I've mentioned), then he sounds like he's a dick. I don't think I would be willing to pay him for his services much longer if I were you. Especially with him telling you that he doesn't want you using your game in tourneys, that shows that he's not as much interested in fixing what he thinks is a deficiency in your game (by encouraging you to avoid those things that you're already good at in favor of newer things that you've not worked as much and haven't developed), and is instead just being closed minded.
AKRhino, yep I agree completely. There was a time when I focused too much on RG and my closed guard game in general and I should have listened to my teacher back then and eased off for awhile, that I get. But I hardly ever pull RG these days, I really just use it to control guys and setup the omoplata because that's the one path I have put in the rep time for to be very good at. I was incorporating all this guys stuff into game and all I was asking was to not abandon a useful tool, especially in comps. Oh and when I have gone to any 10th Planet gym no one has ever told me to stop using techs that worked, 10th Planet is always cool like that :)
I've had it now, moving on to go train at Kaijin for awhile where they don't discriminate. This will set me back once again for my blue, which is almost comedic at this point but oh well, having fun is way more important. Thanks all for the input.
P.S. What's the etiquette about competing as a new member of a gym. I was just about to go for it but I'm only just starting at Kaijin so it's not like I know them well enough to compete under their flag, nor do they know me well enough. How long do you think one should wait for that?
Everyone knows that all you need to shut the 10th planet system down is a basic knowledge of bjj.
:cool:They hate us cuz they ain't us!
yeah, just posture up lolQuote:
Originally Posted by sean applegate
Great post there.
I COMPLETELY AGREE!!! all we can do is prove them wrong brotherQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris Odell (Datsusara)
I'd like to welcome you all to the annual playa haters ball. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go put some water in Buck Nasty's mama's dish. I hope everything bad happens to you, only you, and nobody else.
haha, I love that shit.
I post on a hardcore/punk message board. There's a jits thread on there with probably about 10 or so dudes that post in there that train. I'm the only 10th planet dude. Whenever I bring up RG, I'm told to drop it and don't waste my time, that RG will never work in high level competition, and that it's detrimental to your knees. I've only been training for about 7th months, so I don't really have a base to refute what's said. I just respond with "it's something a lot of my teammates work and I've had success with it thus far." What's the deal with this?
No, They are definitely wrong. Rubber Guard does work! Some strictly gi guy's are gi purist and will not accept anything into their system that has anything to do with no gi. Where they mess up with their logic is that Rubber guard works as good in the gi as no gi. The best way to open the eyes of close minded instructors like this is to roll with their students and let them see for themselves how rubber guard works against their system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Odell (Datsusara)
I have had the pleasure of rolling with gi only types who think no gi is ineffective, They don't sleep on no gi guy's anymore.
Really them saying rubber guard doesn't work is like a no gi guy saying de la riva doesn't work. The Truth,They both are different tools for different jobs, And they both work. Don't listen to close minded instructors. By them being close minded they are going to limit the potential of their own game, and yours as their student if they refuse to let you find what works and doesn't work for yourself, By dictating to you what works and what "doesn't".
I've been following this topic for awhile now, noticing it come on once or twice a month. So now I want to share our experience with this issue as well. October will be our 1 year anniversary with 10thplanet system. I know kids BJJ is nowhere near high level jiu jitsu but I feel its still relevant to this topic. Only after 5 days of working on the RG, Cora was able to win a tournament with it. At first she was only known as the girl with a good triangle. So at every tournament all you hear coaches screaming was "watch out for her triangle". Needed to find a better way to set up the triangle I found the RG. To me there isn't a more effective way to set up a Triangle than coming by way of the RG. This is just my opinion so please take it easy on me...:) Fast forward a year to present, now I'm hearing coaches scream "watch out for her rubber guard!!!!". As a weapon, the RG is great. But what I find also with Cora's training is that once she understand getting submission from the RG, she is also understanding other techniques faster. RG has really shorten her learning curve big time. Luckily we have a very understanding coach....... which lead me to our present problem.... coaching.
Cora is being trained at the gym by her then blue belt coach (he got promoted to purple now). He trains her 5 days a week at the gym. I train her 5 days a week also at home 10thplanet stuff before she goes to the gym. But at the tournament, her head coach(black belt) is coaching her. There have been a few recent tournament that I truly believe she could have done ALOT better if I was coaching her, because I know what she is can do. But due to my respect for him, I step aside. There are some moments that I just can't take it anymore and I started to coach her which end up confusing her, having 2 people coaching. So recently I've been just the camera man. Maybe I don't have his experience, maybe I don't know jiu jitsu. But one thing I can say that I know is 10thplanet jiu jitsu, which Cora and I drill all the time together. So I think that I know her game more than anyone. At a recent tourney, Cora was doing one of our 10thplanet set up and we can hear her coach say "no not like that..don't do it like that", but Cora did the set up anyways and got the submission. He was pleasantly surprised.
So with all my reading on here, I do think that the guys who trains at a non-10thplanet gym has it bad. The tug of war between traditional JJ and 10thplanetJJ and not wanting to hurt anyone's feeling or ego is always there. Cora trains a lot with me at home and although she knows the traditional JJ, she tend to lean toward 10thplanet stuff more because that is what we drill at home. Its like her very own private lesson vs instructions at the gym toward 20 kids who are not high level like her. It make me feel bad also that she rarely use any of the stuff being taught at her gym at the tournament. Its now up to the point where I just want her to compete at tournament outside of town, because I don't want to step on her coach toe as he is a very nice guy who is just trying to do his job. So yeah..this is where we are at now.
The problem with 10th planet techniques are not the thechnique them selves but the problem is the individual focusing on the RG of truck etc...while their basics aren't solid yet. My instructor(former moon head) refused to show me any RG or 10thpjj stuff until I reached blue. Now that I have reached blue I feel I can actually execute 10pjj tech easier since he built my basics up so they are solid. This goes for any advanced techniques(DLR guard, xguard, berinbolo) wait to learn till your basi s are solid. The cool stuff will come don't rush anything or it wont be done correctly.
I couldn't disagree more. Rubber guard was one of the first things i learned and I found it to be very beneficial as a new guy with no previous grappling skills. I only consider "advanced techniques" the positions that you rarely get in and don't have much of a chance to practiceQuote:
Originally Posted by Craig Feldman
In my honest opinion rubber guard is ineffective for your average midget