Why does Ryan Hall dis the Rubberguard?

I think Ryan's just not a fan of the basic path because he likes working off a higher hip bump like angles in full guard, but I've seen him use the Pyramid and the Flying Kung Fu move. Plus his style rarely involves the clinch. I've seen his DVDs and he doesn't directly insult the Rubber Guard. He just warns against using flexibility and a substitute for superior angles and postions He also warns against ending up flat on your back which will in fact shut down your Rubber Guard game- especially when the guy on top is good at stacking with a head and arm to the Tozi or Forearm Choke Gable gripped into an underhook to the Tozi Pass.

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Originally Posted by RobSchwartz

I met Ryan at one of his seminars. He is far from close minded, and also a very nice guy. I am sure he has his own reasons for not using the rubber guard. Personally I enjoy the rubber guard and have had quite a bit of success with it, but I wouldn't dismiss anything that someone of his skill level says.

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Absolutely. Everything does not work for everybody. You just have to find what works for you, which clearly he has done.

denny ftw

he never goes into detail about it and doesn't really even mention it by name, but he lists a few reasons on his triangle dvd. he briefly mentions things on the second dvd, he points out that kyra gracie injured her knee using it and explains his thoughts about it; here's an extract that might clear things up:
"do not try to just pull your feet in front of the guys face, i used to do all this kind of stuff man, it just stops working. it stops working against, when you get to a certain level, because even if i pull his arm to the mat, tim is still extremely strong here. his elbows are close to his side. he can just hold me here and if i start pulling my foot around, if 1. i get it in front of his face i can break my own leg off, and 2. he can posture any time he wants, yes i can squeeze my balls off and do different things that can make it annoying, but there's no true threat to tim. so my job is not to come up with a tricky way to beat him but to scoot out."

ahhh speaking of which his triangle dvd is super cool, it goes over all the other attacks from guard in detail to. he seems like an awsome guy, always looking for ways to advance his technique to the next level based on what he sees working.

just happened to come across this video. i've seen videos where he was sorta using 10th planet stuff but one could argue he wasnt, however this one at 50 seconds clearly shows he is using rubberguard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWIXyX_2L8Y

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Originally Posted by DBK

just happened to come across this video. i've seen videos where he was sorta using 10th planet stuff but one could argue he wasnt, however this one at 50 seconds clearly shows he is using rubberguard.

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Renato refers to that technique as the "high" guard...because it's high on your back...and invented from that guy....he is high.....is that like eddie bravo? das edgie bravo.

i love the 10th planet system, tonight i drilled the twister Korean zombie got then i drilled the banana split, and ive seen Ryan use the rg in the video of him landing the gogo.

Looks like he got into Mission Control and just abandoned it entirely after two seconds. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the rubber guard from Mr. Hall.

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Originally Posted by David Stager

Looks like he got into Mission Control and just abandoned it entirely after two seconds. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the rubber guard from Mr. Hall.

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I believe he was a blue belt at that time as well. Jon Watkins said it well, he doesn't have a problem with it. He just feels that since it presses your own back flat to the mat, that he prefers to play an angle based closed guard. These days, he's never playing closed guard much so it really doesn't matter. It's mostly DLR, Reverse DLR, Deep Half, 50/50, and 1 Leg X. He doesn't even do many triangles anymore lol.

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Originally Posted by Neale Hoerle

IMHO its like anything else... If you own BMW you dont drive a Mercedes. Like Eddie said, who knows what his TRUE feelings are. Fact is he's his own name brand...

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This.

I don't think He has a problem with Eddie or the system as much as he has a problem with people buying a rubber guard dvd over his dvd's. Its just a little envy I think, no big deal.

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Originally Posted by Preston Bludworth

What you need to ask yourself is "are there any top MMA guys that have MASTERED the Rubber Guard." 10th planet is still, in terms of martial arts, a VERY YOUNG system. I imagine that it will be a few more years before people have it mastered enough to employ it in the top level mma matches. I have already seen it a few times by "top level" guys, which I assume refers to the professional level. Nino Schimbre, Jason Day, Shinya Aoki, these are all professional and well known fighters that have used it in mma bouts.


I think that the system as a whole is too young to gauge whether or not it will be the standard or not in the cage. 10th planet is just part of a bigger system of jiu jitsu. It is not the end all be all. Everything has a place and figuring out when to use the tools you have is half the battle.

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+1. Other than Vinny and George there are way more guys doing it half assed than legit. Can't wait until all the young talent takes over.

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Originally Posted by Shawn Arnold

This.

I don't think He has a problem with Eddie or the system as much as he has a problem with people buying a rubber guard dvd over his dvd's. Its just a little envy I think, no big deal.

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That's not it at all. Ryan doesn't even diss Eddie on said footage. Doesn't mention his name, doesn't mention the rubber guard by name, nothing...Ryan likes the position for MMA. Just doesn't like it for Jiu-Jitsu.

'Cuz FUCK Ryan Hall, THAT'S why.

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Originally Posted by Ehsan_Karam

'Cuz FUCK Ryan Hall, THAT'S why.

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:/ Ryan is a awesome dude and amazing grappler. I trained with him last week and got to roll a 10 minute round with him. He was nothing but super nice to me and runs a great school. He had no problem we me playing rubber on some of his guys. It might not be his preference, but that is all. He has done a lot for the sport, especially being American born. I'm looking forward to going back.

I'm gonna be totally honest and admit that I have a bit of a man crush on Ryan Hall. That 50/50 entry I hit at the last tournament was something I started working on after seeing him using it (and then saw Jason Eisner working it on MTS. Thanks Eisner!). I picked up his 50/50 and Triangle DVD set and I think he's a freaking genius and one of the best teachers I've ever heard on the subject of Jiu Jitsu.

As far as him "dissing" the Rubber Guard, I don't know about that. He definitely says you shouldn't just pull your foot up in front of your face all sloppily (and I think we would all agree that this is true) and it's clear that he steers people away from that style of guard, but he doesn't bash Eddie by any means. If someone has personal experiences with him to the negative, I can't speak to that. I've only met him in passing one time so it's not like I know the guy personally, but I know plenty of people that have been to train at his gym and they all speak very highly of him.

He's got the best instructionals. His back attack dvd is amazing and a lot of the small details transfered to nogi just fine. It upped my game for sure

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Originally Posted by Brent Smith

He's got the best instructionals. His back attack dvd is amazing and a lot of the small details transfered to nogi just fine. It upped my game for sure

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Word. That's my favorite series of his aside from the triangle set.

I googled found this.

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Originally Posted by Shawn Arnold

+1. Other than Vinny and George there are way more guys doing it half assed than legit. Can't wait until all the young talent takes over.

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Yeap.

Ryan is a great guy, and an exceptional teacher! He showed zero hate for 10TH Planet to me, and shared some of the best instruction on triangles, that I have ever received! To the point, that I have my guys drill Ryangles at the beginning of every class!!!

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Originally Posted by Bill Keeling

Ryan is a great guy, and an exceptional teacher! He showed zero hate for 10TH Planet to me, and shared some of the best instruction on triangles, that I have ever received! To the point, that I have my guys drill Ryangles at the beginning of every class!!!

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Did you do a seminar with him at your school?

No, I went to Lloyds gym and got a few privates with Ryan. Then got him and myself in to train with Rickson in 2009.

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Originally Posted by Bill Keeling

No, I went to Lloyds gym and got a few privates with Ryan. Then got him and myself in to train with Rickson in 2009.

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Well I wouldn't dis a guys system if he was paying me for private lessons and hooking me up with Rickson Gracie.

LoL, he was always open and honest, not to mention the Rickson thing came down the road ;)

He likes to hear himself talk. He said guard was dead three years ago.

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Originally Posted by brent_littell

He likes to hear himself talk. He said guard was dead three years ago.

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LOL.

/thread

He likes to hear himself talk. He said guard was dead three years ago.

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Originally Posted by lost

What's the proper attack angle?

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I think of it as picking one buttcheek over another.

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Originally Posted by lost

Did he give a reason why he decided not to fight, I'm guessing it wasn't because he thought he'd lose, or was afraid of losing.

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This. There are tons of reasons for Hall might've declined the fight, but being a bitch or ducking Denny isn't one of them. Did you all call Denny a bitch or scared when he was unable to do ADCC? I mean, thats just being petty.

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Originally Posted by Brian Morency

I googled found this.

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Wow, great find!

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Not really sure what his true feelings are about the rg but all people who dislike it havnt taken the time to master it. It's simple, if you don't like wrestling odds are you prolly suck at takedowns :-)

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+1

Unfortunately, in bjj too many people are not humble, and they like to dis people who have different ideas. If something doesn't work for you fine, but don't bring down a fellow bjj'er who is trying to evolve one's ability to defend and attach from the bottom (Eddie). Dam bjj politics.

How does this thread keep coming up...

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Originally Posted by AJ Camacho

I thought that he said that the RG, encourages people to play flat off of their back and that it breeds improper guard work? Or something to that effect. Which is odd, because I can't even work rubber guard until I achieve a broken posture and a proper attack angle... two things which are crucial components to most (if not all?) guard attacks.

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Not long ago someone told me Ryans view's were similar to this, not wanting to be on your back because to him it is a less dominant position.

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Originally Posted by Ryan Hall

" I guess I’d say my approach to the guard has changed drastically. It isn’t to pull some whacky sweep or triangle out of my ass anymore. My whole goal is to just make you off balance to the point that you can’t, for a moment, stop me from standing up—and now I finish from a positional advantage. I feel that’s the truly reliable way to do it."

"People come to me all the time and say, ‘Teach me the inverted guard." I’ll show them if they really want to know, but I generally prefer not to. Instead, I’ll try to sell them on this: learn how to wrestle a little bit, and I’ll show you how to pass. The guard is an important position, but the purpose of the guard is not so that I can triangle you; the purpose of the guard is so that I can get on top. It’s the proper strategic choice, seeking the mechanical advantage."

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Someone told me he is even giving up most of the 50/50 stuff in favor of always dominant position always offensive style play, of course he will still use whatever works in a situation, but his logic seems to be that it is a much more beneficial methodology to avoid guards and try to dominate from more 'offensive' positions with less exposure.

I have 3 of his Triangle DVD. Good stuff, but what I hate while going through it is his bashing the RG. At one point he bash it so much I just couldn't continue to listen what he had to say about his technique. Then a few minute later in another clip, he did a flying kung fu without any effort. WTF!!???

Ryan thinks that in BJJ and No Gi that space is essential. The ability to have free range of motion with your hips is his style and how he also teaches his half guard. He believes that the rubberguard locks you down. It stops them, as well as your own hips from moving to other angles of attack. Flexibility isn't an issue for him also.

TL;DR: he likes guard with free movement and space. He believes RG locks both people in place.

Source: I've been to his gym and talked to him, his teachers and my own trainers at yamasaki about this

Different strokes for different folks. His DVDs are amazing in my eyes and I've gained a lot of knowledge from him. If he doesn't like the rubber guard or lockdown half, he doesn't have to use it. I use what works for me and try to understand moves that don't.

Ryan Hall doesn't even follow his own advice/philosophies. Remember his tirade against giving up any position and why top was so much better? Then he went out and played inverted guard only.

Ryan has to sell his own product. Plain and simple.