Child ranks in 10th Planet BJJ?

So this is USA Judo's rules for how a youth participant can waiver the age requirement to enter their tournament as a senior. The requirements include being able to prove that you competed in senior black belt rank tournaments and showed success. You can't enter senior black tournaments unless you have a senior rank. Another of the pages on the site said you had to of at least gotten senior brown, which again means it's possible to get senior brown. http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Judo/Athl...er-Information

"In judo children cannot get adult ranks as their are age restrictions. This is set up by the National governing bodies in Judo, your sensei is mistaken. There is a transfer system in place (equivalency structure) that when they age in a "promotion" can take place."

That was my original statement on minimum age requirement and the transfer of ranks, and I stand behind it 100%. You tried to twist what I said to mean there are no junior black belts, which I never said. Here is more to further prove what I said is fact.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...psbd12e442.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps10f25018.jpg

So, from Shufu Judo which is a member of the American Judo Association. This is the Junior Rank requirements:

http://shufujudo.org/wp-content/uplo...ementsV3.1.pdf

And in the notes:

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NOTES:

1.After attaining the rank of Ikkyu, the judoka would
earn the rank of Senior Sankyu.

This means he/she should be striving to improve their knowledge and techniques, be participating in either Shiai or Kata in the Senior Division and attain points. Once a judoka reaches his/her 17th birthday the conversion to Senior Sankyu is automatic.

2. A 15 year old judoka has the choice to either attain higher Junior rank (advance as
far as Ikkyu Purple belt) or examine for Senior rank on the recommendation of the
Head Instructor and Registration Chairperson. Senior rank requirements are not
addressed in this document. Please refer to the Shufu Yudanshakai web site for the Shufu Yudanshakai
Senior Rank Requirements. Juniors (those under age 17) can switch to Senior rank when they are physically and
mentally ready to start competing in Senior level tournaments.

3. The Junior minimum age requirement can be waived up to two years for judoka who have clearly exceptional ability and contest record compared to others their age.Their contest record is to include competing in numerous regional, national and/or international level tournaments on a regular basis. This age waiver is only for those who regularly dominate their division and will likely be competing in Senior level tournaments before age 16.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

You tried to twist what I said to mean there are no junior black belts, which I never said.

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No. I didn't attempt to twist anything you said. (Seriously man, this is not personal for me. I also didn't say you meant that there are no junior black belts. You very clearly said that in your understanding that juniors cannot get senior ranks. The problem is there are people who are clearly minors who have senior ranks and enter senior ranked tournaments as a result. The last link I gave you outlines the process that organization uses for juniors testing for senior rank. It's obviously rare and meant for Judoka who demonstrated that they are ready for it through competition. (And I support that 100%).

I understand you don't want people spewing bullshit. We are actually a lot alike in that regard. And that was my motive in trying to clarify my position. Not to twist your words, or to ignore what you are saying. You called me out on it so I am providing proof as you requested. (In a rather blunt and personal tone, which I am not returning, for the record.)

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Originally Posted by Neil Kiernan

So, from Shufu Judo which is a member of the American Judo Association. This is the Junior Rank requirements:

http://shufujudo.org/wp-content/uplo...ementsV3.1.pdf

And in the notes:

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which isn't recognized national governing body, so it's irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

which isn't recognized national governing body, so it's irrelevant.

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That doesn't make it irrelevant. Nor is it irrelevant that Juniors with Senior ranks are entering senior tournaments. Or the OPEN WORLD tournaments.

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Originally Posted by Neil Kiernan

That doesn't make it irrelevant. Nor is it irrelevant that Juniors with Senior ranks are entering senior tournaments. Or the OPEN WORLD tournaments.

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The IFJ does not recognize rank unless it from one of the main 3 in the United States. Hell they won't recognize the USJA unless the athlete is a member of USJI or USA Judo as well.

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Originally Posted by Neil Kiernan

No. I didn't attempt to twist anything you said. (Seriously man, this is not personal for me. I also didn't say you meant that there are no junior black belts. You very clearly said that in your understanding that juniors cannot get senior ranks. The problem is there are people who are clearly minors who have senior ranks and enter senior ranked tournaments as a result. The last link I gave you outlines the process that organization uses for juniors testing for senior rank. It's obviously rare and meant for Judoka who demonstrated that they are ready for it through competition. (And I support that 100%).

I understand you don't want people spewing bullshit. We are actually a lot alike in that regard. And that was my motive in trying to clarify my position. Not to twist your words, or to ignore what you are saying. You called me out on it so I am providing proof as you requested. (In a rather blunt and personal tone, which I am not returning, for the record.)

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I all ready stated and provide the conversion and equivalency chartfor Dan ranks for juniors which is why a 15 yr old black can compete as senior nationals. Which continues to support what I have been saying all along.

So it looks like you got these images from here: http://www.usjf.com/public/rank_requirement.pdf from USJF.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...psbd12e442.jpg

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In the first picture it shows Junior Black Belt having the exact same rank for "conversion" as Senior Black Belts. As in Junior Black Belts are Senior Black Belts.

The rest of the document also says that the minimum age for Shodan or 1st degree black belt is 14 years old.

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Rank Requirements
Handbook Section VI
Section VI • Page 12 of 18
Copyright©2005 by United States Judo Federation,Inc.

SHODAN

GENERAL REQUIREMENTS:
1. Unquestioned moral character and maturity
2. Continued practice and interest
3. Achieve a minimum score of 75 on “Shodan Evaluation Report”
4. Increased proficiency in all lower rank requirements
5. Terminology required for lower ranks
6. Names, colors and order of junior and senior belt ranking system
7. Minimum age of 14 years

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The issue here is that you said you cannot attain senior ranks in Judo at all as a youth.

Going to attempt to bring this back on topic again.

I think the proper resolution to the question of whether or not youth can reach senior ranks in Judo is "It depends on what organization you are dealing with..." not "No you can't." And that's a compromise I am ok with.

USJA allows you to convert Junior Purple to Senior Black. (Now, not just for the sake of the argument about youth black belts, but this means that in that organization a child who goes through all of the promotions can look forward to being a "senior" black belt as soon as they meet the age requirement.) http://www.usja-judo.org/promotion-requirements/

In contrast, youth rank in BJJ currently means nothing. There is no conversion system.

I am all for making sure that there is quality. (Which is also why what warmed me up to the idea was a competition requirement.)

I think that would be a good rule for BJJ as well. 10th Planet and otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Neil Kiernan

So it looks like you got these images from here: http://www.usjf.com/public/rank_requirement.pdf from USJF.



In the first picture it shows Junior Black Belt having the exact same rank for "conversion" as Senior Black Belts. As in Junior Black Belts are Senior Black Belts.

The rest of the document also says that the minimum age for Shodan or 1st degree black belt is 14 years old.



The issue here is that you said you cannot attain senior ranks in Judo at all as a youth.

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No I didn't say that, I said "In judo children cannot get adult ranks as their are age restrictions. This is set up by the National governing bodies in Judo, your sensei is mistaken. There is a transfer system in place (equivalency structure) that when they age in a "promotion" can take place."

When they age is NOT "cannot attain senior ranks in Judo at all " its when they age in as listed in each org.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

No I didn't say that, I said "In judo children cannot get adult ranks as their are age restrictions.

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Ok, so senior rank = adult rank right?

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Originally Posted by Neil Kiernan

Ok, so senior rank = adult rank right?

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Yes, however you are clearly missing the point where I said they can "age in" which is what the rank transfer charts are for. I didn't say a specific age because they vary depending on the org, which is why I posted both of the USJA's and the USJF's rank transfer charts.

Ok, I am satisfied with having proven that some Judo organizations allow kids to rank into adult ranks. And that some allow a transfer from child ranks to a comparable adult rank.

Why not have a system like this for youth BJJ and 10th Planet BJJ in particular?

BJJ does have it through the IBJJF, however I don't know how they handle it.

As IBJJF is corrupt as fuck we have zero interest in working with them.

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Originally Posted by Neil Kiernan

Ok, I am satisfied with having proven that some Judo organizations allow kids to rank into adult ranks. And that some allow a transfer from child ranks to a comparable adult rank.

Why not have a system like this for youth BJJ and 10th Planet BJJ in particular?

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They can transfer when they are the appropriate age to become a senior, which makes them no longer juniors/children in the eye of that particular national governing body.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

As IBJJF is corrupt as fuck we have zero interest in working with them.

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Well we certainly don't need to. Does not mean we could not do something similar.

10p Burbank has an excellent kids program, if you have any questions about kids 10p ranks contact Kim Ferguson :)

Thanks Eddie. I checked this out and their system seems cool.

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Jiu Jitsu Belt Promotions

Everyone starts out as a white belt in the kids Jiu Jitsu program (unless transferring from another school, in which case they will be evaluated for the appropriate belt rank when joining our school). Throughout their training, the kids have the potential to earn the following belt ranks:

White, Grey, Yellow, Orange, Green, Blue

JJ Belts

If they get all the way up to their blue belt (around age 16), they will be officially ranked as a blue belt in Adult Jiu Jitsu (world-wide). At each belt, there are four stripes that must be earned to progress to the next belt. The time-frame it takes to achieve stripes and belts is dependent on many different factors, such as frequency of training, aptitude, effort put into training, whether or not the student competes in tournaments, etc. Everyone is on their own journey in their jiu jitsu careers. Belt promotions happen as frequently as the instructors feel necessary, but generally take place every couple of months. As with all our other programs, belts are truly earned, and your child will feel confident and successful in the belts they earn!

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