am i over reacting or being unreasonable?

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Originally Posted by Arman Fathi

I think he meant Assistant To The Instructor, not Assistant Instructor.

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The point was to not base anything on a blue belt
Not sure why some are trying to prove the exception to the rule

This thread ended when da Zog spoke

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Originally Posted by Arman Fathi

I think he meant Assistant To The Instructor, not Assistant Instructor.

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Attachment 3339

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Originally Posted by Mojoplata

Attachment 3339

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He has the honor of being the "senpai,' meaning he does duties as assigned by his sensei. Including but not limited to:

-mopping the mats

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Originally Posted by Arman Fathi

I think he meant Assistant To The Instructor, not Assistant Instructor.

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"Dwight Schrute, promoted from assistant to the regional manager, to assistant regional manager"

edit: GOD DAMMIT! ^^ lol I was following this from the beginning and thought I was the first to think of this hahaha

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Originally Posted by kevinculp

If I had a dollar for every white belt that has told me how his old instructor was holding him back or not promoting him even though he clearly has high level skills. Wish they would shut up and win tournaments and shut up and train harder than their team mates. Do that and everything else falls in to place. Don't and you're just another guy talking noise.

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My post has nothing to do with rank. I could care less about my belt. It was more about fairness and integrity. To some of us that is more important. I could very well go and get smashed.

Herzog, devil's advocate here, we're talking about a comp, so there's not much to save him from. A couple tapouts early in his career aren't that big a deal. And I have a lot of trouble with the notion of any instructor, no matter how great, having the final say on anything I do in my life. Teaching is a partnership. I'm paying you to teach me and advise me, but ultimately I make choices. When I make dumb ones, you might have known better, but I will have learned.

That said, the real issue here is what kind of instructor do you have? Will doing your own thing risk your training relationship? Is that worth more than one single tournament?

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Originally Posted by ErikLavigne

My post has nothing to do with rank. I could care less about my belt. It was more about fairness and integrity. To some of us that is more important. I could very well go and get smashed.

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I was just playing off of Zog with the very common white belt know it all types. Not directed at you personally. As an assistant to the instructor myself I have seen many of them. But I wouldn't pay and stay at a place if it didn't meet my expectations either. You should value the service you pay for. It's your money!

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Originally Posted by kevinculp

I was just playing off of Zog with the very common white belt know it all types. Not directed at you personally. As an assistant to the instructor myself I have seen many of them. But I wouldn't pay and stay at a place if it didn't meet my expectations either. You should value the service you pay for. It's your money!

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Ah, my bad. It's still too early to tell. I've been going here for almost 4 months 2-3 times a week. I see a lot of inconsistency and I think it's because of his TKD background and he's only a purple belt in JJ. I'm going to give it a solid 6 months and reevaluate. I have visited the machado school and love the organization and teaching method, but it's more expensive and farther away. So I will keep using the forums to help me out.

If you've competed in nogi before at a higher level AND been successful then IMO it is sandbagging.

Last year I was in the same postion. I signed up for intermediate in NoGi and Whitebelt in Gi. There were no problems. (Grappling Industries)

A five year grappler in the beginner division would be the definition of sandbagging. Don't let your coach talk you into it.

Most competitions say "Beginners = less than one year" or something like that. I have never been in a tournament where a five year guy wouldn't be cheating by going beginner. If this tournament says, "Experience level as determined by instructor" or something weird like that, then it's a different scenario. But, I'm guessing this tournament has a certain amount of mat time they are expecting you to be under if you go beginner. If you have more than that, then you are cheating no matter what your instructor says.

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Originally Posted by Jack Hanley

A five year grappler in the beginner division would be the definition of sandbagging. Don't let your coach talk you into it.

Most competitions say "Beginners = less than one year" or something like that. I have never been in a tournament where a five year guy wouldn't be cheating by going beginner. If this tournament says, "Experience level as determined by instructor" or something weird like that, then it's a different scenario. But, I'm guessing this tournament has a certain amount of mat time they are expecting you to be under if you go beginner. If you have more than that, then you are cheating no matter what your instructor says.

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Now you see my issue. I did 3 years of almost 5-6 days a week when I first started. No kids, no responsibility. I slowed way down after my 3 year mark, had my first kid. Took about 5 years off, only rolling 5-10 times a year really. Got back into it at the beginning of this year and been hitting it about 2-3 times a week. It was slow to come back at first, but I really feel like im hitting my stride.

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Originally Posted by ErikLavigne

Now you see my issue. I did 3 years of almost 5-6 days a week when I first started. No kids, no responsibility. I slowed way down after my 3 year mark, had my first kid. Took about 5 years off, only rolling 5-10 times a year really. Got back into it at the beginning of this year and been hitting it about 2-3 times a week. It was slow to come back at first, but I really feel like im hitting my stride.

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Yeah, if you were competing in a less than 1 yr or less than 1.5 years beginner division against one of my guys and I heard that, I would definitely call you cheater.

What do the rules say in this tournament? Is there a "Beginner = 1 year" type rule or no?

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Originally Posted by Jack Hanley

What do the rules say in this tournament? Is there a "Beginner = 1 year" type rule or no?

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I am not sure. Its in Dallas in September, he said its a pretty big tournament so I imagine its going to have some sort of rule about experience .

Does your coach frequently and easily tap you? Or roll with you like you're a noob?

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

Does your coach frequently and easily tap you? Or roll with you like you're a noob?

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Well in a 5 minute roll, he may get a tap once maybe twice. Typically in Gi he is just letting me work. However, in No-gi I give him a run for his money. Rarely does he tap me in no-gi. He is pretty new to the no-gi system. He is much faster than me, better technique. In a Gi he would wreck me if he wanted to. I am not good with seeing the collar chokes haha

While gi is a different beast than nogi, I've never met anyone that had that much experience nogi and still struggled enough to be considered a white belt in gi.

What if he's just more concerned with people thinking you're sandbagging in the gi?

Do what your instructor says

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Originally Posted by Gray

While gi is a different beast than nogi, I've never met anyone that had that much experience nogi and still struggled enough to be considered a white belt in gi.

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We're rare, but we exist. Eddie gave me my black belt last October; I felt a little underprepared but I don't think anyone who has rolled with me would really dispute that ranking. But, at at that time I had *never* worn a gi. Never worn one, never seriously watched gi matches or techniques, never really thought about it. Nothing against the gi at all, just never did it. Since then, I've been to about 4 gi classes, and I can tell you that at *best* I'm a blue belt with the pajamas on. I almost got put to sleep by ~150lb blue belt; in no-gi, I tap him ~10 times in an 8 minute roll. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest. The two styles are just completely different, and I expect that gi training prepares you for nogi better than nogi prepares you for gi. Whatever the reason, my particular skillset translates poorly. Though if I catch you in rubberguard with the gi on, you're completely fucked.

It would be beyond idiotic for me to show up at a gi tournament with my black belt and think I could last more than a minute. At the same time, I could see how people would be pissed off if I take gold in advanced/expert nogi and then show up the next day as a blue belt in the gi. The reason is that people like me are rare; most grapplers have put on the gi for an extended period at some point. Shit, even Josh Barnett has worn one from time to time.

Erik, you're in a similar situation though not quite as extreme. By the rules of the tournament you should enter advanced nogi and white belt gi divisions. However, this is awkward for everybody. The only graceful solution is to only compete as a white belt in the gi and forgo nogi enirely, unsatisfactory as that may sound. Eventually (hopefully), your skills in the gi will catch up to nogi and then you'll be able to compete plausibly in an advanced division.

In general, you should defer to your instructor's opinion, but never feel pressured to do something that violates your ethics.

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Originally Posted by Amir Allam

We're rare, but we exist. Eddie gave me my black belt last October; I felt a little underprepared but I don't think anyone who has rolled with me would really dispute that ranking. But, at at that time I had *never* worn a gi. Never worn one, never seriously watched gi matches or techniques, never really thought about it. Nothing against the gi at all, just never did it. Since then, I've been to about 4 gi classes, and I can tell you that at *best* I'm a blue belt with the pajamas on. I almost got put to sleep by ~150lb blue belt; in no-gi, I tap him ~10 times in an 8 minute roll. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest. The two styles are just completely different, and I expect that gi training prepares you for nogi better than nogi prepares you for gi. Whatever the reason, my particular skillset translates poorly. Though if I catch you in rubberguard with the gi on, you're completely fucked.

It would be beyond idiotic for me to show up at a gi tournament with my black belt and think I could last more than a minute. At the same time, I could see how people would be pissed off if I take gold in advanced/expert nogi and then show up the next day as a blue belt in the gi. The reason is that people like me are rare; most grapplers have put on the gi for an extended period at some point. Shit, even Josh Barnett has worn one from time to time.

Erik, you're in a similar situation though not quite as extreme. By the rules of the tournament you should enter advanced nogi and white belt gi divisions. However, this is awkward for everybody. The only graceful solution is to only compete as a white belt in the gi and forgo nogi enirely, unsatisfactory as that may sound. Eventually (hopefully), your skills in the gi will catch up to nogi and then you'll be able to compete plausibly in an advanced division.

In general, you should defer to your instructor's opinion, but never feel pressured to do something that violates your ethics.

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Finally, someone else that knows what im going through. I agree, huge difference in a gi. I can stall and survive for quite some time in a gi, but if I get offensive at all, I get caught with collar chokes all day. I am getting better, grip fighting more and more. I still prefer no-gi, but gi is helping my no-gi game improve. Thanks for the input brother, makes me feel better to know im not crazy

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Originally Posted by Gray

While gi is a different beast than nogi, I've never met anyone that had that much experience nogi and still struggled enough to be considered a white belt in gi.

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Well you have to understand, all my experience is in no-gi. To go from that to gi is a completely new animal. Its like going into a fight unarmed and your opponent has a knife. I get choked from every angle when I try to go offensive. Only being in it for about 4 months I would say I am a white belt for sure in a gi due to the fact I fall for basic level chokes all the time.

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Originally Posted by ErikLavigne

Ok, recently told my instructor I was ready to start competing.

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Maybe it's a miscommunication?

You told him you are 'ready to start competing', which sounds like you want to compete for the first time. And it also seems like you feel you are 'ready' just now, so it sounds like a beginner.

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Originally Posted by Axel NL

Maybe it's a miscommunication?

You told him you are 'ready to start competing', which sounds like you want to compete for the first time. And it also seems like you feel you are 'ready' just now, so it sounds like a beginner.

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Well he knows Ive competed before, even showed him some highlights lol. However, I can see where that may have confused some people on this forum. I should have said "start competing again" lol. My bad, good find.

I would do whatever Sean Bollinger told me to do. If he said jumping off this bridge would make me better at Jiu Jitsu then fuck it thats what im doing. I guess that's the benefit of having a Bad ass instructor. But unfortunately he has never asked me to jump off a bridge cause that would be easy lol. Nope the only thing he's said is get your ass to class and listen to what I say and you will get better. Seems simple enough right.

sup Erik, I can see you can feel strongly about this issue of potential sandbagging. If I were in your shoes with the exact same dilemma, I too would have asked my coach and people on this forum. It is clear that if your coach, and multiple competitors/coaches on this forum agree with your coach to go beginners in both nogi AND gi, that I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and trust their experience and advice.

Even if it's been said multiple times in different ways, maybe hearing it again will help. Gi and NoGi are two similar sports with some major differences which does in fact make them separate skill sets. I'd keep that in mind to help curb any feeling of guilt you have over your skill disparity between the two skill sets. Maybe a completely non jiu jitsu related example might help. Bobby Flay is a MASTER level creative chef for southwest cuisine, but if he enters a cooking competition show for Southern Swahili native dishes, *I'm under the assumption he's not too versed in that style of cooking,* that he could enter as novice despite his high skill in another related but different culinary style. I'd even wager that he'd be blown out completely if he tried to enter that same cooking competition for an unfamiliar culinary style as advanced/master.

I hope I helped even a little Erik. Best of luck on the mats.

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Originally Posted by Enrique "Kiko"

sup Erik, I can see you can feel strongly about this issue of potential sandbagging. If I were in your shoes with the exact same dilemma, I too would have asked my coach and people on this forum. It is clear that if your coach, and multiple competitors/coaches on this forum agree with your coach to go beginners in both nogi AND gi, that I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and trust their experience and advice.

Even if it's been said multiple times in different ways, maybe hearing it again will help. Gi and NoGi are two similar sports with some major differences which does in fact make them separate skill sets. I'd keep that in mind to help curb any feeling of guilt you have over your skill disparity between the two skill sets. Maybe a completely non jiu jitsu related example might help. Bobby Flay is a MASTER level creative chef for southwest cuisine, but if he enters a cooking competition show for Southern Swahili native dishes, *I'm under the assumption he's not too versed in that style of cooking,* that he could enter as novice despite his high skill in another related but different culinary style. I'd even wager that he'd be blown out completely if he tried to enter that same cooking competition for an unfamiliar culinary style as advanced/master.

I hope I helped even a little Erik. Best of luck on the mats.

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oh, what I mean when they are "related" culinary styles is that they are related on the most basic of things like...cutting/chopping, using heat to combine and transform flavors, combining spices, plating.

Amir, I think we're agreeing because even by your own account you weren't a white belt in the gi. Blue, which is significantly lower than your nogi rank, but still not white.