HUGE DILEMMA- Need help in trying to advance JJ career

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Originally Posted by VJ Bella

:) Interesting comment. I was letting you know so two teamates (technically I guess) would not have to fight each other on a high level card (but rather support each other?) but if this is the route you would like to go to make a name for yourself so be it. Best of luck!

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I know for sure that Tori didn't mean anything offensive here. I think she was giving Gabby a compliment actually.

I was referring to your views in the potential quality of a practitioner from a small team, based on our brief mat time together. You took my paragraph break out when you quoted me.

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Originally Posted by Tori Applegate

I want to be the best female no gi grappler. Period. In the world. I want to be in the first 10 of Eddie's female black belts, if not the first five or less.

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I see you girl

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Originally Posted by sean applegate

I wonder how som many people from Atlanta are so successful, without living in L.A. or N.Y.....weird

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Hell yes our gym American Top Team Atlanta is on fire right now. Recently our head coach Jucao choked out Mark Munoz in the 1st and two of our best No-gi guys got promoted to brown belt. There is an electricity here for sure, very high level stuff.

Also we are very 10th Planet friendly. I encourage anyone from 10P to stop by for some rolls if you are ever in Atlanta.

If a team like alliance is based out of atlanta, it makes the entire region better. They compete locally and we fight them regularly. As a matter of fact, brandon just sock locked an alliance brown belt. Cobrinha, lepri, and even marcelo lived in the southeast at one point or another. All the while competing at the top level. Ill be in L.A. for the EBI trials, pay attention and ill show you what level exists out here. Until then, keep shrimping, big guy.

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Originally Posted by Tori Applegate

VJ, 10th planet or not I would fight Gabby and be honored to do so. I would fight any of the other girls they'd like to match up with me. I'm looking for something new and exciting to try this year.

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Originally Posted by VJ Bella

:) Interesting comment. I was letting you know so two teamates (technically I guess) would not have to fight each other on a high level card (but rather support each other?) but if this is the route you would like to go to make a name for yourself so be it. Best of luck!

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10 on 10 crime happens all the time. :) It's all love.

Tori, does Grapplers Quest go near AL these days? I know it's been a bit tough for the tournament organizers there for a bit, but looks like they're trying to pick back up some steam. Also, would you consider travelling to hit up tournaments along the East Coast (it looks like FL is having a growing number of circuits pop up like 7 Grappling, and there's another tournament New Breed Grappling that is picking up steam too).

Or, maybe Pat and I could ask Mario at Dragons Lair if he'd do another 8 woman tournament and make sure you're on it (at the tournament Pat and I did last weekend it was a female absolute nogi grand Prix style tourney with Peggy Morgan from Ultimate Fighter taking the trophy).

Either way, I admire your passion, if I make it out to the FL training camp in Aug hope to meet Sean and you!

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Originally Posted by Craig Murray

Brandon, perhaps we just have a miscommunication. I have mad respect for your skills, and the skills of MANY people who train in small groups, obscure places. I'll be training the rest of my life and I'll probably never get to the level you're at already. But being a really strong grappler is very different than earning gold in the most prestigious international competitions.

How many 10p people have even competed in ADCC worlds, let alone medaled, let alone won? It's really really really really hard to get to the very top podium of the top tournaments in the world. Almost every single person who gets there has training partners who also compete at that level. I'm really surprised this idea is so controversial.

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I agree that if you want world championships, you need destroyers lined up against you every day. My issue is with people believing that a guy who wins a tournament always has the best Jiu Jitsu. Knowledge can be racked up and refined from anywhere in the world. Winning a tournament (and in a lot of cases, even one match) has a lot more in play than simply the quality of your Jiu Jitsu. You gotta be a savage athlete, strong as an ox, and let's be honest here: you probably wanna do steroids, as well. Competition is a completely separate skill set.

Also, what I believe as far as myself is that I could have been one of those fast Black Belts, yes. Not with HIGHER LEVEL coaching; with ANY coaching. I can call on Eddie, Herzog, and many others at any time. I get to train with them regularly. But I've never had a coach oversee me day to day. Would have been amazing; I didn't have that. I'm incredibly proud of that fact, though, and I wouldn't trade what we have here for any situation in the world. So when someone insinuates that our Jiu Jitsu is inferior, whether because we are 10th Planet or because we don't have current world champions, I take it personally.

I know you didn't mean any disrespect. I just think there are probably things about the process that you don't understand yet.

It always comes back to the individual. Does this guy have what it takes to truly pursue excellence? If yes, he will find excellence. Because I assure you that there are many, many students at Atos, Alliance, and every other team who aren't world champions and never will be. Why is that?

I would say that at blue belt, if you're not interested in IBJJF tournaments, you're better invested in going to schools with the top females and training for a week rather than competing. Go roll with Domynyka and see what she does/did/will do to be the best.

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Originally Posted by Gray

I would say that at blue belt, if you're not interested in IBJJF tournaments, you're better invested in going to schools with the top females and training for a week rather than competing. Go roll with Domynyka and see what she does/did/will do to be the best.

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That's strong advice.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

I agree that if you want world championships, you need destroyers lined up against you every day. My issue is with people believing that a guy who wins a tournament always has the best Jiu Jitsu. Knowledge can be racked up and refined from anywhere in the world. Winning a tournament (and in a lot of cases, even one match) has a lot more in play than simply the quality of your Jiu Jitsu. You gotta be a savage athlete, strong as an ox, and let's be honest here: you probably wanna do steroids, as well. Competition is a completely separate skill set.

Also, what I believe as far as myself is that I could have been one of those fast Black Belts, yes. Not with HIGHER LEVEL coaching; with ANY coaching. I can call on Eddie, Herzog, and many others at any time. I get to train with them regularly. But I've never had a coach oversee me day to day. Would have been amazing; I didn't have that. I'm incredibly proud of that fact, though, and I wouldn't trade what we have here for any situation in the world. So when someone insinuates that our Jiu Jitsu is inferior, whether because we are 10th Planet or because we don't have current world champions, I take it personally.

I know you didn't mean any disrespect. I just think there are probably things about the process that you don't understand yet.

It always comes back to the individual. Does this guy have what it takes to truly pursue excellence? If yes, he will find excellence. Because I assure you that there are many, many students at Atos, Alliance, and every other team who aren't world champions and never will be. Why is that?

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Brandon Mccaghren again.

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Originally Posted by VJ Bella

:) Interesting comment. I was letting you know so two teamates (technically I guess) would not have to fight each other on a high level card (but rather support each other?) but if this is the route you would like to go to make a name for yourself so be it. Best of luck!

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I believe they do multiple females matches. Am I correct in saying that? I don't think we would anyways. I know some other females that may be there. You're right. It's not about the name. I've wanted to catch a roll with her for awhile, but I need to travel out to where y'all are and set something up. I have to fight my tranny partner at tournaments a lot and have fought other 10p girls at tournaments. Sometimes it has to be done, but if they'll set it up where no one has to that would be cool. But I don't even have anything tacked down w pgl yet.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

I know for sure that Tori didn't mean anything offensive here. I think she was giving Gabby a compliment actually.

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I was. She's a savage and have watched her matched for a long time. If put in a position where I had to fight her I would be excited just to get that roll. Forget winning and losing. I've watched her since I was a very new white belt and thought she was awesome!

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Originally Posted by Tori Applegate

I believe they do multiple females matches. Am I correct in saying that? I don't think we would anyways. I know some other females that may be there. You're right. It's not about the name. I've wanted to catch a roll with her for awhile, but I need to travel out to where y'all are and set something up. I have to fight my tranny partner at tournaments a lot and have fought other 10p girls at tournaments. Sometimes it has to be done, but if they'll set it up where no one has to that would be cool. But I don't even have anything tacked down w pgl yet.

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Dyana will probably be interested to know that you called her your "tranny partner." Lol

Oh shizaaaa!!! She's not a tranny I promise. She's very much a girl!!! Lol and she's not my tranny partner haha...hahaha..ha.

No offense meant guys. I'm certainly not dissing anyone's skills or abilities as a coach etc. Humans are amazing at overcoming and adapting to their situations and I wish each of you the best. I just was offering advice to possibly consider specifically for a person with the explicit goal of becoming the single best practitioner in the world at their weight/sex. You are only having a problem finding tournaments because of where you are located.

Also didn't mean anything derogatory to "the south" and the people who live there. I would say the same to anyone living in Canada, or the northwest, or the midwest etc. and that is only pertaining to this very specific sport BJJ goal. You're just stacking the odds against you at a significant degree. Can you overcome those odds? Sure. No one has yet though. It's just something to think about. All the examples cited are of people who first got to a high level in Cali, New York or Brazil first. There is a big difference between Cyborg who trains under the best, becomes the best and then relocates to a place not known for jits like Florida Vs. someone trying to go from white to the best while living in a place not known for jits.

I think you can recognize Brandon that if your goal was to win competitions at the highest levels at your weight and you were truly serious about it, you would need to relocate. Absolutely I am talking just from a competition perspective and just specifically from a perspective of wanting to be the absolute best. And absolutely by "best" I just mean someone who consistently wins within sport bjj designed rulesets that might be arbitrary and not adequately reflect the knowledge or full skillset of said practitioner. You can certainly focus on becoming a great coach, having a perfect understanding of BJJ, wipe the mats with the likes of people like me, be an ambassador for BJJ in your area and add a great deal of value to our sport and to 10th Planet. But to change gears from a coach perspective to a competitors perspective and aim to win at the highest level, much would have to change for you (yes maybe even including steroids ;-).

Sorry to take it off topic for you Tori by interjecting some unwanted opinions. I wish you the best. I would probably agree with others in saying that you might see more gain from week long training trips at various schools rather than competitons. When training with new partners at new schools, each roll is basically like a competition from a learning perspective other than getting better at the ruleset and strategy side of sport BJJ.

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Originally Posted by Ben Eddy

No offense meant guys. I'm certainly not dissing anyone's skills or abilities as a coach etc. Humans are amazing at overcoming and adapting to their situations and I wish each of you the best. I just was offering advice to possibly consider specifically for a person with the explicit goal of becoming the single best practitioner in the world at their weight/sex. You are only having a problem finding tournaments because of where you are located.

Also didn't mean anything derogatory to "the south" and the people who live there. I would say the same to anyone living in Canada, or the northwest, or the midwest etc. and that is only pertaining to this very specific sport BJJ goal. You're just stacking the odds against you at a significant degree. Can you overcome those odds? Sure. No one has yet though. It's just something to think about. All the examples cited are of people who first got to a high level in Cali, New York or Brazil first. There is a big difference between Cyborg who trains under the best, becomes the best and then relocates to a place not known for jits like Florida Vs. someone trying to go from white to the best while living in a place not known for jits.

I think you can recognize Brandon that if your goal was to win competitions at the highest levels at your weight and you were truly serious about it, you would need to relocate. Absolutely I am talking just from a competition perspective and just specifically from a perspective of wanting to be the absolute best. And absolutely by "best" I just mean someone who consistently wins within sport bjj designed rulesets that might be arbitrary and not adequately reflect the knowledge or full skillset of said practitioner. You can certainly focus on becoming a great coach, having a perfect understanding of BJJ, wipe the mats with the likes of people like me, be an ambassador for BJJ in your area and add a great deal of value to our sport and to 10th Planet. But to change gears from a coach perspective to a competitors perspective and aim to win at the highest level, much would have to change for you (yes maybe even including steroids ;-).

Sorry to take it off topic for you Tori by interjecting some unwanted opinions. I wish you the best. I would probably agree with others in saying that you might see more gain from week long training trips at various schools rather than competitons. When training with new partners at new schools, each roll is basically like a competition from a learning perspective other than getting better at the ruleset and strategy side of sport BJJ.

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Ben, I think you've earned the right to have any opinion you would like. You're a monster and you have all my respect.

I don't disagree at all that you need incredible training partners to rise up. If someone came to my gym with the goal of being a world champion, I could get them started down the path. I could probably even raise them up to purple or brown belt champion status. But at some point they'd have to move on. For now. I don't expect that to be the case for much longer. So at this moment, yes to become a world champion at Black Belt level it would be wise to bash heads with another world champion everyday, and that is tough to find outside of the major cities.

But yall watch what the south does in the next 5 years. Remember the names Sam Davis, Matt Skaff, Tori Applegate and Sean Applegate. And if Michael Bartlett, Bobby Rivers and Scott Phillips want that, they could do it, too.

Man crush on Skaff

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Originally Posted by Tori Applegate

I believe they do multiple females matches. Am I correct in saying that? I don't think we would anyways. I know some other females that may be there. You're right. It's not about the name. I've wanted to catch a roll with her for awhile, but I need to travel out to where y'all are and set something up. I have to fight my tranny partner at tournaments a lot and have fought other 10p girls at tournaments. Sometimes it has to be done, but if they'll set it up where no one has to that would be cool. But I don't even have anything tacked down w pgl yet.

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Maybe I took that the wrong way so apologies Tori. Its hard to tell tone on a forum :) If two 10p females are matched in a tourney then let the best soldier win (it happened to Gabby at Gracie Nationals last year) but in a super fight situation where you have a say who you have a match with it doesn't make sense to fight a teammate (my two cents). If you do make it out this way hit us up...gabby is always up for a good roll and i have 500 SQ foot mat space in my barn that we can use whenever. If you come out for a PGL or Pans or whatever and need a place to practice for the week give us a holler we would love to have you guys.

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Originally Posted by Ben Eddy

I wish you the best. I would probably agree with others in saying that you might see more gain from week long training trips at various schools rather than competitons. When training with new partners at new schools, each roll is basically like a competition from a learning perspective other than getting better at the ruleset and strategy side of sport BJJ.

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I haven't been competing much but I have been hitting up a lot of other schools and I couldn't agree more. You add a lot to your game doing this route.

Is everyone going to gloss over that her phone auto corrects training for tranny? Maybe I'm just immature..

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Originally Posted by Ben Eddy

No offense meant guys. I'm certainly not dissing anyone's skills or abilities as a coach etc. Humans are amazing at overcoming and adapting to their situations and I wish each of you the best. I just was offering advice to possibly consider specifically for a person with the explicit goal of becoming the single best practitioner in the world at their weight/sex. You are only having a problem finding tournaments because of where you are located.

Also didn't mean anything derogatory to "the south" and the people who live there. I would say the same to anyone living in Canada, or the northwest, or the midwest etc. and that is only pertaining to this very specific sport BJJ goal. You're just stacking the odds against you at a significant degree. Can you overcome those odds? Sure. No one has yet though. It's just something to think about. All the examples cited are of people who first got to a high level in Cali, New York or Brazil first. There is a big difference between Cyborg who trains under the best, becomes the best and then relocates to a place not known for jits like Florida Vs. someone trying to go from white to the best while living in a place not known for jits.

I think you can recognize Brandon that if your goal was to win competitions at the highest levels at your weight and you were truly serious about it, you would need to relocate. Absolutely I am talking just from a competition perspective and just specifically from a perspective of wanting to be the absolute best. And absolutely by "best" I just mean someone who consistently wins within sport bjj designed rulesets that might be arbitrary and not adequately reflect the knowledge or full skillset of said practitioner. You can certainly focus on becoming a great coach, having a perfect understanding of BJJ, wipe the mats with the likes of people like me, be an ambassador for BJJ in your area and add a great deal of value to our sport and to 10th Planet. But to change gears from a coach perspective to a competitors perspective and aim to win at the highest level, much would have to change for you (yes maybe even including steroids ;-).

Sorry to take it off topic for you Tori by interjecting some unwanted opinions. I wish you the best. I would probably agree with others in saying that you might see more gain from week long training trips at various schools rather than competitons. When training with new partners at new schools, each roll is basically like a competition from a learning perspective other than getting better at the ruleset and strategy side of sport BJJ.

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Your opinion was fine! I agree. I think what I've concluded from all of this is to travel and train. I guess I thought I just needed to mainly travel and compete and some training too. But if my schedule and everything opens up some I have certain spots I'd like to visit with some really high level players. It's nice to see belts higher than blue posting on the forum honestly.

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Originally Posted by VJ Bella

Maybe I took that the wrong way so apologies Tori. Its hard to tell tone on a forum :) If two 10p females are matched in a tourney then let the best soldier win (it happened to Gabby at Gracie Nationals last year) but in a super fight situation where you have a say who you have a match with it doesn't make sense to fight a teammate (my two cents). If you do make it out this way hit us up...gabby is always up for a good roll and i have 500 SQ foot mat space in my barn that we can use whenever. If you come out for a PGL or Pans or whatever and need a place to practice for the week give us a holler we would love to have you guys.

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Nice, so do y'all live in NJ? I think that's where I saw they hosted the last one. I thought y'all were in Cali, but it's easy to get confused on who lives where sometimes. Yea, I agree on the tone thing. No I'd rather not fight 10p, but have had to before. Just somewhat used to it, fight My TRAINING partner lol, not tranny, all the time just because we start on opposite ends of the bracket and we fight for first, always. But!! You're right. It'd be cool to go and both of us have matches. I'd like to see one of her matches in person for sure. It's always better that way, but hey we'll see if I can get on it or not.

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Originally Posted by Gray

Is everyone going to gloss over that her phone auto corrects training for tranny? Maybe I'm just immature..

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Gray, my phone is a PIECE. I have a new one coming in the mail right now!

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Originally Posted by Tori Applegate

It's nice to see belts higher than blue posting on the forum honestly.

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You could always just put a disclaimer only asking for advice from higher belts. Wouldn't take it personally.

Well I couldn't agree more with what Ben Eddy and Brandon were saying about the location is an important key to success. I am also in favor of training with different people at different schools because I have learned a lot in this past year training at three different schools versus just one school. That is my preference though because this is the first real sport I have done in 15 years, so I get mad jitters when I compete. After training with so many different people lately it has helped me grow in tremendous ways (and this website too). Anyways, Jiu Jitsu Magazine for me has always had great references for tournaments all over the country. One I just saw an article for which you might already know about is Newbreeduc.com which sounds legit. Another decent website is BJJTour.com. I don't know what your financial situation is but in the winter here in California there is NABJJF and the Jiu Jitsu Expo which is always fun and great deals on cool equipment., and there are other tournaments but that's just to name a few. Hope this helps, sorry I don't have the experience to help benefit you but I do like to help no matter what.

I think I'm going to start referring to training partners as tranny partners now. Just to freak out people who are already homophobic about BJJ. Like, "Yeah, so me and my tranny partner were doing some BJ......J."

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Originally Posted by Tori Applegate

Nice, so do y'all live in NJ? I think that's where I saw they hosted the last one. I thought y'all were in Cali, but it's easy to get confused on who lives where sometimes. Yea, I agree on the tone thing. No I'd rather not fight 10p, but have had to before. Just somewhat used to it, fight My TRAINING partner lol, not tranny, all the time just because we start on opposite ends of the bracket and we fight for first, always. But!! You're right. It'd be cool to go and both of us have matches. I'd like to see one of her matches in person for sure. It's always better that way, but hey we'll see if I can get on it or not.

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We are in South Jersey just outside of Philadelphia. Gabby goes over to Cali from time to time so shes not always here but she hasn't been out there in over a year now. I know she is planning on going back fairly soon, just not sure when.

Tori, get out here to SC and do some tournaments. Sara Mcmann competes at local tournaments around here. Having trained with both of you, I think you two are a great matchup. I know it wouldn't be high status competitions, but you would get to compete against Sara.

some opinions on this subject


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Tori, I honestly think you'll go far. And I 100% disagree that you need to move to accomplish that. LA and NY may be the hot bed now but that doesn't necessarily mean that is the model everyone has to follow to become the best of the best. You keep doing you and you keep training like you are and the nay sayers can look back and say "shit I was wrong".

As someone who lives in the south and has 4 world champions on his team. One at Blue. One at Purple, one at Brown and one at Black I think the only major reason you have more champs in the big cities is that you have more people training. We also had a Ultimate Fighter Champ come out of our school. Bruno Malficine has his Aliance school in Orlando as well. So you don't even have to go to South Florida to find monsters. I'm sure once our numbers of competitors reach that of California you'll find the South just as dominant as SoCal.

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Originally Posted by Jeremiah Macy

Tori, get out here to SC and do some tournaments. Sara Mcmann competes at local tournaments around here. Having trained with both of you, I think you two are a great matchup. I know it wouldn't be high status competitions, but you would get to compete against Sara.

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I have competed against Sara before. It would be cool to do again. :)

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Originally Posted by Brent Smith

Tori, I honestly think you'll go far. And I 100% disagree that you need to move to accomplish that. LA and NY may be the hot bed now but that doesn't necessarily mean that is the model everyone has to follow to become the best of the best. You keep doing you and you keep training like you are and the nay sayers can look back and say "shit I was wrong".

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Thanks Brent. You're the man.

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Originally Posted by jeremiah macy

tori, get out here to sc and do some tournaments. Sara mcmann competes at local tournaments around here. Having trained with both of you, i think you two are a great matchup. I know it wouldn't be high status competitions, but you would get to compete against sara.

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Originally Posted by brent smith

tori, i honestly think you'll go far. And i 100% disagree that you need to move to accomplish that. La and ny may be the hot bed now but that doesn't necessarily mean that is the model everyone has to follow to become the best of the best. You keep doing you and you keep training like you are and the nay sayers can look back and say "shit i was wrong".

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Originally Posted by kevinculp

as someone who lives in the south and has 4 world champions on his team. One at blue. One at purple, one at brown and one at black i think the only major reason you have more champs in the big cities is that you have more people training. We also had a ultimate fighter champ come out of our school. Bruno malficine has his aliance school in orlando as well. So you don't even have to go to south florida to find monsters. I'm sure once our numbers of competitors reach that of california you'll find the south just as dominant as socal.

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agreed.

The truth is, if this was 6 months ago, you wouldn't have even said N.Y. was a hot bed. Every region has guys on that level, there at just more in some places.

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Originally Posted by sean applegate

The truth is, if this was 6 months ago, you wouldn't have even said N.Y. was a hot bed. Every region has guys on that level, there at just more in some places.

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6 months ago, I would have for sure said NY is a hotbed. It's been a hotbed forever. So I disagree with you on that. SoCal, NY, Miami in my opinion are very much on par for the TOP places to train. There's tons of killers in those areas! I feel like you can totally grow wherever you are and achieve your dreams, but heading to those places are going to speed up your development. Thats my two cents

[QUOTE=Tori Applegate;254264]I have competed against Sara before. It would be cool to do again. :)



I can let you know next time we do a tournament. Also, I wonder if there's a way we could set up a super fight. What weight do you compete at?

[QUOTE=Jeremiah Macy;254306]

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Originally Posted by Tori Applegate

I have competed against Sara before. It would be cool to do again. :)



I can let you know next time we do a tournament. Also, I wonder if there's a way we could set up a super fight. What weight do you compete at?

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Been competing at 135 because that's what most girls fight at. I'd like to do 125 for smaller tournaments and possibly 115 if the bigger tournies have that weight available.

[QUOTE=Tori Applegate;254310]

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Originally Posted by Jeremiah Macy

Been competing at 135 because that's what most girls fight at. I'd like to do 125 for smaller tournaments and possibly 115 if the bigger tournies have that weight available.

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Sara is 135 too! For about 5 minutes....