This argument has been used in the past by prominent figures often before. replace the word "homeless" in your argument with jewish, black, or gay and you will see what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Nowling
This argument has been used in the past by prominent figures often before. replace the word "homeless" in your argument with jewish, black, or gay and you will see what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Nowling
im not white... but most of our homeless people are. The point is they made a law to try and protect the hundreds of children that play at that park AND there are atleast 3 kitchens for the homeless within walking distance of that park that I can think of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah Mendoza
I didn't say you were. You don't have to be white to stereotype an entire community. 3 kitchens huh? Well that park could have been a fourth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Nowling
I can admit, I do not live in that area, so you probably do have a more accurate perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Nowling
This event was clearly none of those things that you mentioned with the homeless problem though.
Anyway, I am 100% into individuals' rights and personal responsibility.
My kids would never be in an Orlando park without close supervision anyhow.
I've been there, and that is not an inviting city.
I do not believe we need police to keep my kids safe at the park,
I will take responsibility for that myself. The homeless are not
the only threat to the safety of the public.
The "safety of the kids" speech is old hat for politicians, and it's a weak arguement.
YOU are responsible for the safety of yourself and your family, not the police,
not the city, not anyone you could ever think of except for yourself.
The kids that go to that park are mostly from surrounding schools, the parents arent there. They DID have the right to feed them for many years, it got out of control and attracted alot of bad people. They had to rake the play ground every morning and collect the hypodermic needles left behind from the homeless. People were being sexually harassed and some molested in the bathrooms... The list goes on and on. Im a salesman for a dairy company and I donate alot of product to certified kitchens and churches downtown. and youre right, Orlando is not a very inviting cityQuote:
Originally Posted by Stephen G.
I have zero respect for people that break the law intentionally to somehow advance there position... Stay tuned, this idiot will be back around Thanksgiving
Do you have any respect for Martin Luther King?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Nowling
Dont compare MLK to some douche bag feeding drug addicts in a public park
First off, I don't believe I'm a part of many weed threads. I don't smoke! I believe Pot should be legal. Its safer than alcohol etc. etc.! Yes I'm fine with a person trying to cheat a drug test if they smoke pot!!! Not a crack head!! There's a difference. I won't be taking part in any protest to legalize it either. If I did, it would be with in my right to demonstrate. But I would know if I did demonstrate there would be consequences. My first post on this thread was dead nuts on this video!! If you knew me you would know I'm not for the "Man". My eyes are wide open... I see all the bullshit. I love my Country but I know the Government is fucked up and corrupt. Now Ehsan Karam says in one his post "Establishment, Establishment, you always know whats best!"...I don't believe the "Establishment" knows what is best!!!! But you can Not have NO "establishment"!!! If I have to explain why that is, then you should just disagree with me because common sense didn't take hold. When I lived in Florida you would always see in the news a home owner fighting the homeowners association about flying a American flag. I believe they should be able to fly a American flag within reason. But I wouldn't buy a house in Florida without having a homeowners association. I want to protect my investment, and I don't want my neighborhood to turn into the hood or live next to Sanford and Son! And AJ comparing the civil rights movement of 50's 60's and 70's to people demonstrating about, doing what they want when they want and where they want, because that's how Jesus did it! The only similarity is they are both protesting. Debating MORALS....shit if we can't agree this was a stunt, and had nothing to do with feeding kids or the homeless we would never agree on morals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah Mendoza
I didn't. You seem to be jumping to conclusions. YOU were the one who made a definitive statement about having zero respect for people who break the law for the sake of their own position. That was your statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Nowling
Martin Luther King and the entire civil rights movement was built upon civil disobedience and the act of knowingly breaking laws to further their own position. Do you understand the conflict that most of us are facing now? In order to be ethically and morally consistent, you must have fair and balanced rules. So, without comparison between a "douche bag" who's giving out free food and MLK... do you have respect for MLK?
If the answer is YES, then your statement is inconsistent and not true.
If the answer is NO, then you are ethically consistent within your stated values however your barometer for assessing civil rights is probably in question since you would apparently leave no gray area for a possibility of a law being wrong or immoral.
You need to read the post again. I gave you a complimentQuote:
Originally Posted by Stephen G.
The common sense is that hungry people should be fed. and yup it was a stunt. rosa parks refusing to give up her seat was a stunt too. No one said that there should be no establishment. Only that people feeding the homeless shouldn't get arrested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
It's considered "cool" to shit on cops, thats why you see people like this telling cops they should be ashamed. When was the last time you heard someone tell our armed forces that they should be ashamed for killing a million civilians in the middle east? Not too often, why is that? Because its considered unpatriotic. But in reality there is no distinction. Forming a useless protest like this (instead of just getting the permit) will never fix anything, cops do not write the laws, they merely do their jobs and enforce them. Would you go to a gas station and protest the useage of fossil fuels contributing to the degredation of the enviroment? Should the attendant be ashamed that they are working the job? The answer to both of those questions is no, because the attendant is getting paid $7.15 an hour and does not have a say in anything.
If you're going to protest something, maybe think it through a little bit better than giving watermelon to "homeless" people.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Ireland
I definitely agree that Cops too often get the short end of the stick and for the most part it can be a thankless job. Trust me, I do not share that sentiment. I appreciate the police in my city and how they continually stop shoplifters in my store.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Ireland
However, as people, we are all accountable for our actions. For the sides we choose, the employment we take, and even down to the items we purchase. Our actions are our own and every time a corrupt nation state has fallen (I am not definitively saying here that the US is an entirely corrupt nation state) individual soldiers, police officers, and authority figures have always been dragged out and held accountable either by the courts or an angry mob. No one is exempt from the accountability of their own actions (except for maybe that one pizza delivery guy with the bomb strapped to his neck who was made to rob a bank, but people seem to think he was in on that one anyways).
If people are willing to pay the consequences for civil disobedience that's on them. I think all of the concerns about the crime in the area are valid however I question the broad sweeping actions taken against all homeless people in attempt to deter the "bad ones" from causing problems. There's more nuance here than bad cops and annoying hippies but people can't seem to see the forest through the trees anyways.
They would have been arrested if they were giving out shirts or merchandise, having a party, etc.! No person or group of people can do what they want on private property! Yes a public park is private property....its owned (run) by the towns, or counties, or state and they decide how that land is used!! They must apply for permission (permit). Back to your food argument. They would not have been arrest if they hand out food at their Church or at their homes...why because it was their property. So if they really wanted to feed the homeless or children they could have. Yes people who are hungry should be feed....But this group wanted to use these homeless people for their own cause. So who is the real bad guys here? The cops doing there jobs or the group using the homeless for their jesus rights!Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah Mendoza
Please stop comparing this to the Civil Rights Movement and Rosa Park. The Civil Rights Movement was about equal rights for people of color and women! This group just wants to do what they want, when and where they want because jesus didn't need a permit!
While I respect what you are saying and this is not directed at you, but people that make comments like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen G.
As someone that has worked in law enforcement and security for the past 20+ years most people would agree with Stephen here. The issue is that when something happened to a child or a female was assulted the first thing that people would say is why didn't the police do something about it. Most people say that they will be responsible for thier children at the park but how many of them really are? That and you can't keep your eye on them every second of everyday.
I know most people here are not fans of law enforcement, and I understand that, but it really is a thanklessjob. It is also just like the rest of society, most police officers are normal everyday people but a few bad ones ruin it for the rest.
That is very well put Greg, I like how you explain position without getting crazy. You are very right about the job being thankless, the problem comes in when you get the ones that expect things because of the job. Im very sure you know the kind, I dealt with them in the Army and Law enforcement.
Why would anyone want A PARK as a homeless food kitchen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah Mendoza
Why do they feel the need to use the park for the homeless kitchen. If they feel so strongly about feeding the homeless, why not invite the homeless into their homes? They could rent a couple vans, and bring them to one of more of their homes for a lunch or a dinner. I would bet that they would not because they DO NOT WANT the homeless in their homes. I and others DO NOT WANT a homeless kitchen in our parks either.
Why not? believe it or not most crimes committed by the homeless are not rapes or murder (ya wow big surprise I know). they are petty crimes like theft. The only thing I'd be worried about a homeless person doing to my kids at a park is stealing their wallets. It's just as likely that a homeless person is a rapist or murderer as the creepy old rich guy watching alone from a bench with a BMW and pockets stuffed with candy. It's a persons responsibility to make the distinction of who is a threat to their family, not a policeman's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Daniels
the fact of the matter is just that people feel uncomfortable around homeless people. That's how it's always been. They are the outcasts of society and people just don't want to see them. And many people are afraid of them, it's the same frame of thinking as when someone sees a black guy with baggy pants.
inviting a homeless person to your house is irrelevant to this conversation because we are talking about feeding them in parks.
You completely missed my point. The park is not a place for a homeless kitchen. It is a place for people, and families to enjoy their time together. Nothing I said was irrelevant. I those people feel so strongly about feeding the homeless, then they need to try harder, including feeding them in their own home. Residents and tax payers of a city have the right decide if they want a homeless kitchen in their park. My guess is that these individuals do not want to invite the homeless to their home to eat, so why can't others say they don't want them in the park?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah Mendoza
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXA-KA-pEKw
LOL
arrested for filming ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY are you joking me cops? abusive much?
Well, if I was homeless I would probably sleep in the bushes at the park. Having a food kitchen 10 feet away from me when I woke up would be like breakfast in bed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Daniels
Seriously though, one of the biggest problems with services for the homeless is that many of the homeless will be ignorant or too mentally ill to locate and utilize special resources like food kitchens. In order to service more people, kitchens will go out of their way to reach out and bring their resources directly to the homeless and wherever they may reside. At least, that's usually the concept.
Its situations like this that give all cops bad reputations. I probably wouldve started dancing for the camera. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Robert Sevigny
She was asked several times to go inside. They did not know her and what she could possibly do. If you were a cop, would you take the chance on her having a gun. What some people need to understand is that it does not matter if you are in "your yard". Technically it is not her yard. My front yard is not "my yard", it belongs to the bank, as does my home. The police had every right to instruct her to go inside and the cop was very patient.
It seems that every time someone posts one of these police "abuse" videos, it is more citizen ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Sevigny
i think its more.. every time these police abuse videos are posted, people do mental gymnastics to justify the police. Its easier to rely on laws to tell you whats right and wrong rather than your own conscience i suppose.
Where was the abuse? If an officer of the law is making an arrest, and they feel threatened by someone standing by and watching, they can ask that person leave the area. What you do not see on the video or even in the story, is that the girl/woman in question is known for being anti-establishment. So, no, I did not do mental gymnastics, I do and did my research.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoogens44
No way. The cop showed his cards early and when she called his bluff he was forced to follow through. She is going to make lots of money off his bad judgement call. Its not what could have happened its what did happen and based off the video it was in her favor. Public perception is going to prevail in this one. These cops would never make it in NYPD then with all of the people around you all the time. Everyone is a possible threat.
yup like eric said.. anyone standing around can be considered a threat. if she was anti establishment .. so what?.. its not like shes pro cop murder. truthfully this situation pales in comparison to the many atrocities cops commit regularly, but hey im a libertarian socialist and all forms of authority anger me.
Sorry, but I believe you both are wrong. The cop did not say that she could not film while inside her home, he just asked that she go inside. She will make nothing off of this.
Yes, a cop has to do what he needs to do in order to feel safe. My cousins actually all got tasered by a cop. Basically one of them was being hand cuffed and like a daisy chain each one RAN up to the cop asking, "Why are you arresting him?" He's a cop, not a friendly tour guide, if you run up on any cop making an arrest you will be tased or tackled.
Personally, I'll take a taser to the chest over a baton to the face and being disfigured for a week.
A cops demands might seem excessive or insane but you have to remember that at the core of the issue, there is a scared man, outnumbered by the community, trying to resolve an issue before the world collapses on him.