But in all fairness, in many cases, you can tell if someones a blue belt by through competition vids alone, no? Im not sayin purple, but blue yeah. Especially with multiple golds. Donyathink?
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But in all fairness, in many cases, you can tell if someones a blue belt by through competition vids alone, no? Im not sayin purple, but blue yeah. Especially with multiple golds. Donyathink?
how about guys that are filming themselves "sparring" but are NOT competing for some reason ??? should they be belted ??
That has to be in person. Thats the feel Zog was referring to i think. But tourney win vids and lots of em is kinda proof pudding.
I personally feel video taped tourney wins alone don't share the essence of Jiu Jitsu: economy of motion , pliability over force, etc. Those things have to be "felt".Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
There is also a huge diffence in skill level in tournaments....entering a beginner division at a Grapplers Quest or a NAGA were there can be over 1000 competitiors is not the same as entering a small grappling tournament run by a TKD school in the middle of a rural area with maybe 200 competitors, most of them from that TKD school.
There is more to Jiu Jitsu than just winning.
The local ones are the most fun though :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I didn't say they weren't fun, I'm saying they aren't always the best test/judge of skill ;)
Yeah... I agree with that... I don't have any belts in Jiu Jitsu but just from the local mma scene I have recognition enough to be a teacher... But I would also like the personal satisfaction of earning a belt because a bunch of other unbelted people telling me I am good... Is not what I want. I want to roll with black belts and see how well I am doing... In other words... I'm looking for challenges that just aren't located in my area... I just want to constantly get better and constantly improve... And getting belts is a physical representation of my personal progress...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
Time to save up some loot and fly out or take a road trip to HQ or an affialte.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ Sisco
Not gonna disagree with you, but I can see it on video. If you watch ten vids of a guy winning or even just competing in a comp. You can tell whether or not he's at least at blue belt level. Im not sayin give him the belt, but you can tell. Ive learned close to 80% of the techs I use online. Did the same thing with b-boy'n and I agree there is something else. Its visible. Economy of motion, style, pace, attacking preferences, defensive tendencies are all intangibles that can be seen through analyzing vids. When a dudes good he's good right? Thats when I say, at least a blue belt level. A lot of us do i think. I would of sandbagged some tourneys if I didnt kinda pre-promote myself because of the confidence in my training and training partners. And we set a high bar for blue compared to most gyms skillwise. I wasnt promoted traditionally though.
Well I disagree with you, all that is not visible. Jiu Jitsu relies heavily on sensitivity and kinesthetic awareness, you don't get that from video. We are not talking about learning from videos we are talking about evaluating someones ability to feel and react. Eyes can deceive your ability to that. Running a preprogrammed attack sequence against someone that defends an attack and you switch attacks because it was preprogrammed to do so, is not the same as flowing through a sequence and reacting and changing attacks because you can feel where your opponent is strong and where he is not. I want to feel my students ability to do that. I have guys that go out there and wreck shop, but there are still white belts, until they can learn to wreck shop and do so with efficiency and application of Jiu Jitsu concepts and principles. I have plenty of white belts cleaning out intermediate divisions, I have no problem bumping them up in experience brackets, the just don’t get promoted until they start understanding the essence of Jiu Jitsu.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
Jiu Jitsu is not just about beating that ass, it’s about beating that ass without breaking a sweat.
I understand was chris is talking about... I call it "the Jiu" (Jiu meaning gentle) you can feel a difference with people when you roll with them...
I know a guy that gets a ton of taps because he's so damn strong and doesn't use his "Jiu" at all and people just tap in practice cuz they're not gonna let this guy try to rip they're arm off when they are just training. But you can tell when people aren't just using a technique against you... You "feel" the setups... You "feel" the patience... And you "feel" the calculation... That's stuff you can't get from a video
Then your not watching it right:)
Mike Dewitt, Stewart Landry, Louis Ho, Scott Yockel, Ian Quinto, Kevin Green, Daniel Valdez, and AJ Camacho are just a few of the people I have never rolled but seen vids of. I can tell they grasp what jj is through vids alone. And giving someone a hypothetical blue belt in my head and actually promoting them, which I have never and wont do for a while, is different. I have rolled dudes and found out later that they were blue and I was like "no way". Anyway, im just sayin I can tell. jmo
But I would also give Taylor a bb for attempting to kick the ceiling, soooo...
When I watch, its not the winning that stands out. It is, however, often a byproduct of good jj. Blue belt level jj, while not at all easy, is also not that hard to obtain through dedication. Which jj somehow tends to make people often.
Eh...still it can be easy to take what you're seeing for granted too.. Flying armbars look easy when Aoki does them... But I can't get my big ass up like that to save my life...
Thats why there needs to be multiple vids. If a guy lands a sick ass flash sub, however badass, Im gonna need to see another vid. If he lands them often, then there might be a pattern. I also like to see what a guy does in bad spots or how he counters counters.
I think alot of blues are still gonna break a sweat against other blues, but they've got an evolving game and style. But thats why blue is as high as I go with this. Ill never say,"hes at least a brown" or purple, because that is delicate territory. Blue is somewhat obvious and usually when I say it they're closer to or officially a purple most times.
Then you have never "felt" it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
http://photos.weddingbycolor-nocooki...-has-a-sad.jpg
Mines bigger:(
If you can see everything in a video then 10th planetjj wouldn't have had to deal with as much controversy as it has... All the shit talking black belts would have said "oh I seen in that video... Rubberguard works!!". Instead, they had to "feel" it to believe it... Cuz when they "felt" it they changed their story to "we were already doing that stuff"
Yeah, but maybe after they have spent hours feeling it and seeing it in person, then maybe they can recognize some of the traits on a vid.
While im doin all this yappin, I wanna publicly say that I literally agree with everything coach Zog says and he is def right. Not tryin to pester the topic. Its just. I watch alot of vids.
Nothing wrong with a friendly disagreement right?
Yes at black belt level and they have spent hours feeling those particular techniques, maybe THEY could ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
I never said it wasn't possible, just that video alone wasn't the best way to evaluate someone.
Oh I got nothin but love for Bobby, he knows that.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ Sisco
lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
but your avatar says bue belt, man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Brown
Everyone that says a belt isn't important to them is lying. If it wasn't important, then why are you paying 100 bucks a month or more for your training. Of course you want a belt to reflect the work you've put into training. Would waste time and money to go to college if wasn't going to produce a degree? No. If the nearest recognition you can get can only be given to you by a black belt 100 miles away, then you better get driving once a week. Oh yeah, compete.