POLL: Am I being too tough on affiliates??

I can only see exception to this being on a case by case basis (note that even us east coast brothers need to devote two days and $1000 + greenbacks to 'level up"). I think the general policy is perfectly fair, but if the reasoning allowed includes 'no time because of teaching and family' then it becomes a bit counter-productive.

In the spirit of keeping the belts quality though I would say that the fullest extent of exceptions would be meeting up with Eddie at a seminar (with his prior knowledge, of course) to be verified.

Just a lowly ronin's thoughts though.

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Originally Posted by Seth_Rolfe

I can only see exception to this being on a case by case basis (note that even us east coast brothers need to devote two days and $1000 + greenbacks to 'level up"). I think the general policy is perfectly fair, but if the reasoning allowed includes 'no time because of teaching and family' then it becomes a bit counter-productive.

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Than its not important enough to you, that is excatly the sacrifice were referring to. Who doesn't have those commitments? Everyone has work and family obligations. Since I graduated college I've had a full time job (I worked in human services for peanuts for 15 years), ran a school(which only made enough to pay for itself to stay open) on top of my own training and a wife and family obligations. Yet I still found time, and busted my ass saving money to go train with my Sambo Coach in Canada, My Judo Coach in Detriot, in Iowa with Pat Miletich and obviously at HQ with Eddie.

If you WANT it you will find a way.

It would be cool for someone to be able promote just by writing a 20 page essay on how badass they are, how they read all of the books, and how they would wreck people in tournaments, if they could find the time to compete, instead of through hard work, dedication, and sacrifice... Then again...

i think it would be cool if your black belts could apprentice one brown belt at a time and promote them to black, like some star wars type shit .

You want all the benefits that eddies name brings then you gotta earn it.

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Originally Posted by John Alighieri

Maybe going to HQ should be compulsory! If Frank and I can make it there every year (I don't think you can come from further away than New Zealand and Australia) everybody can!
Be a bit tougher on that rule I say :P

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I completley agree!!!

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

I give my non-black belt affiliate instructors 2 ways to get promoted.

1. Compete and post your matches on this forum so that we can all see where you're at.

or

2. If you can't compete for whatever reason, (permanent injury or too busy teaching and raising a family) you must come to 10th Planet Headquarters to get promoted.

I feel that if you don't compete AND you can't make it to HQ to test then you don't have enough fire inside of you to represent 10th Planet properly.

What do you guys think?
Am I being too tough?

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Sounds more than fair!

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Originally Posted by Jon Helton

How else would/could you even promote them?
Leave it the way it is. Only suggestion would be to get more one on one mat time with them when/ if they have you out for a seminar. Just so you can feel their level yourself.
I love competing and the way it is now only makes me hungrier to choke people.

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I agree with everyone that you guys need to have high standards. Bravo's belts are looked at very highly. But I also know the trip to HQ is very unaffordable for some for legitimate reasons, while others who easily cough up the dough, or even scrape to get it, get by because it's possible for them.

For others, while either running academies, or even running academies with either a family, or other huge financial obligations; whether they be past debts, spousal support from a divorce, back taxes, something new breaks at the gym, low student enrolment, and I've even heard of the TSA banning folk from flying, it is not easy, or even possible to make it to HQ within a decent time. Maybe, those folk should be looked at in a different light. And yes, some deeply love the game, but can't compete because of injuries.

Otherwise, i think Bravo's standards are perfect as they stand. Nonetheless, keeping the above in mind, the only thing I would add is going to affiliate schools to do seminars, and rolling with the student/teacher to see where they are, and quite possibly promote. Most other BJJ legends run their affiliates that way. That would be the third option, but only for those that really, truly can't make it to HQ.

Other than that, I think you guys got it down -- not that my opinion matters. lol.

Eddie, never change it!

Ever. You're ARE being more than fair.

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Originally Posted by ifreez

I agree with everyone that you guys need to have high standards. Bravo's belts are looked at very highly. But I also know the trip to HQ is very unaffordable for some for legitimate reasons, while others who easily cough up the dough, or even scrape to get it, get by because it's possible for them.

For others, while either running academies, or even running academies with either a family, or other huge financial obligations; whether they be past debts, spousal support from a divorce, back taxes, something new breaks at the gym, low student enrolment, and I've even heard of the TSA banning folk from flying, it is not easy, or even possible to make it to HQ within a decent time. Maybe, those folk should be looked at in a different light. And yes, some deeply love the game, but can't compete because of injuries.

Otherwise, i think Bravo's standards are perfect as they stand. Nonetheless, keeping the above in mind, the only thing I would add is going to affiliate schools to do seminars, and rolling with the student/teacher to see where they are, and quite possibly promote. Most other BJJ legends run their affiliates that way. That would be the third option, but only for those that really, truly can't make it to HQ.

Other than that, I think you guys got it down -- not that my opinion matters. lol.

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There's always a way sir! Don't tell me that it cost several grand for someone in the US to fly to Cali?
Takes me a year to save up for Cali but I still make it. Maybe if you're crawling under debts and you get ban from flying you should reconsider your priorities...

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Originally Posted by John Alighieri

There's always a way sir! Don't tell me that it cost several grand for someone in the US to fly to Cali?
Takes me a year to save up for Cali but I still make it. Maybe if you're crawling under debts and you get ban from flying you should reconsider your priorities...

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Well, I'm not crawling in debt, and I can fly, I was merely coming up with hypotheticals that are real for some. All I'm saying is you can have it both ways, either your instructor comes to you, which many legends accomodate, or you go to him, which is also very legit. It doesn't have to be one way or another. I'm not 10th Planet, and you guys don't have to listen to me, and you have the right to do things your way. It's up to everyone to seek out what fits them. But, I personally don't think one way is better than the other or vice versa.

Eddie, I think your system is very fair and does not exclude those
who really want to advance, just my opinion.

However, it seems to be something you're considering some sort
of problem or issue. Perhaps there are some ways to encourage
more people to fall into your standards for the belts. For example,
maybe once or twice a year invite all affiliate coaches who want
to advance to HQ for a session where they can gather, share ideas,
and also test for belts if desired. I think encouraging meetings like
this will drive more folks to try and progress more quickly and would
also be very encouraging for them as they head back home with new
ideas and experience from folks that are working hard to achieve
similar results. I feel like if you make it something that has a date
and time frame - make it an event to be at, perhaps that would be
a goal that affiliate instructors would be more encouraged to achieve.

All of this is only suggested on top of the already existing system.
Just some ideas on encouraging progression.

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In life you have to make sacrifices for what you want. Getting promoted isn't a NEED, its a WANT. If you want to get promoted, you’re going to have to make sacrifices, period. I know the sacrifices I've made, and will continue to make. I know what I WANT and I'm willing to work my ass off, and I'll be better for it.

Everyone wants to get to the top of the mountain. It’s HOW we make it to the top that sweetens the victory. I could take a helicopter, a beat up old bus, or I can climb tooth and nail my way to the top. I know which one I will appreciate and savior the most when I get there.

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Chris that quote is awesome, it should apply to anything in life-well said.

Should I start giving out brown belts at seminars to instructors who won't compete and won't travel to Cali to test themselves against HQ purples, browns and blacks?

Should I?

What yalls think?

I will if most of you think i should.

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Should I start giving out brown belts at seminars to instructors who won't compete and won't travel to Cali to test themselves against HQ purples, browns and blacks?

Should I?

What yalls think?

I will if most of you think i should.

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I don't think you should

I dont think you should (If thats a serious question)

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Should I start giving out brown belts at seminars to instructors who won't compete and won't travel to Cali to test themselves against HQ purples, browns and blacks?

Should I?

What yalls think?

I will if most of you think i should.

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I think that has to be your call but if you do I would suggest only if said potential Brown belt candidate has been reping the system for a min of 3 years to avoid people trying to pull a B Quick. If they won't come to HQ maybe when you go out bring one or two guys from HQ to them, maybe not cost effective not sure if travle can be a tax write off or included in the price of seminar. I volunteer myself for testing purps or browns 185-240 lbs ;-)

Is there more background to these questions?

Is there a reason you want more brown belts at the current stages
of the system's business?

I personally think that you shouldn't be able to achieve brown or black
without actually visiting you in person, and working the techniques with
those that you have already deemed brown or black.

Brown and Black belts have such an influence on the others in the system.
I think it's important for them to be somewhat few and far between, and for
them to have to show a great amount of commitment to you and your system
along with it's standards if they are going to be instructors advertising their ranks.

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Should I start giving out brown belts at seminars to instructors who won't compete and won't travel to Cali to test themselves against HQ purples, browns and blacks?

Should I?

What yalls think?

I will if most of you think i should.

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I would say no. That just sounds like too much leeway.

First of all, Thank You for putting me in a great group of competitors and 10th planet reps and thank you for the pat on the back. It makes me want to train harder and compete more.
As for fairness, it's not only fair to the person wanting to get belted, its the only fair thing for you so that you can guarantee that your putting out a great representative and its only fair to other 10th planet peeps wanting to get promoted and that have been promoted. I love knowing that if someone is a certain belt level in our system they earned it just like I did in one way or another and when I get my belts passed to me from your hand that I deserved it and it's a true honor when done.
DV

Should I start giving out brown belts at seminars to instructors who won't compete and won't travel to Cali to test themselves against HQ purples, browns and blacks?
NO.

You should do what you think is right for the system. The tougher the standards the more determined the student. The standard of black belt is rising higher and higher every year. The guys training to get there one day (myself included) need to get tough and rise to meet that challenge.

Eddie if you don't make it tough then it's not worth it. A belt, regardless of color, is something not everyone should be able to posses. If they could then the belt would be truly worthless.

It's a tough climb but only those that reach the top get the glory.

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Originally Posted by Matthias Sieber

It is good as it is right now. That being said I'll come back to L.A. in four weeks for three months of training at the place to improve. And I want to participate at the No Gi World representing finest 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu technique.

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fucking nice to hear that....see you later!

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Should I start giving out brown belts at seminars to instructors who won't compete and won't travel to Cali to test themselves against HQ purples, browns and blacks?

Should I?

What yalls think?

I will if most of you think i should.

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LOL. You know EVERYBODY is gonna say hell no. Well, everybody except whomever it was that went and wined about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Should I start giving out brown belts at seminars to instructors who won't compete and won't travel to Cali to test themselves against HQ purples, browns and blacks?

Should I?

What yalls think?

I will if most of you think i should.

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personally, i dont think you should. i dont know, everything i wanted to say has been said. sacrifice and so on...

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Than its not important enough to you, that is excatly the sacrifice were referring to. Who doesn't have those commitments? Everyone has work and family obligations. Since I graduated college I've had a full time job (I worked in human services for peanuts for 15 years), ran a school(which only made enough to pay for itself to stay open) on top of my own training and a wife and family obligations. Yet I still found time, and busted my ass saving money to go train with my Sambo Coach in Canada, My Judo Coach in Detriot, in Iowa with Pat Miletich and obviously at HQ with Eddie.

If you WANT it you will find a way.

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+1

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Should I start giving out brown belts at seminars to instructors who won't compete and won't travel to Cali to test themselves against HQ purples, browns and blacks?

Should I?

What yalls think?

I will if most of you think i should.

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if they "WONT" i would say NO way, if they legitimately Cant, then yes.

if you feel someone deserves a certain color belt in your system then who am i to question how you give it to them. i know you would not promote someone to something they didnt deserve.

example- if someone lived in a 3rd world country and was barely putting food on the table, but was scraping pesos together to go to every seminar you put on in that country and training everyday. you test his skills and roll with him, you can give him what ever belt you want.

heck its hard for me (financially and scheduling) to drive four hours to get to hq, so i can understand the difficulty for others coming from other parts of the world.

the bottom line is, who you promote and how you promote is up to you, we should not question your judgement.

you should charge peapol to test and make some dough and make 10th planet a religion so you don't have to pay taxs.

Interesting thread, and even more interesting is that some of us believe that a belt should be awarded even if the skill level that should be attained to wear the belt isn't reached.

If one doesn't have the skill, knowledge level, etc to rank up, then they don't rank up. Please keep the standards the way they are Eddie. If one wants a quick black belt in a year of training, there are plenty of McDojos willing to belt you for money. If one wants to learn a "real deal" martial art, then you're in the right place training the 10th Planet system, just be prepared to put the time in and demonstrate *through competitions or seminars etc* that you ACTUALLY know and can perform the moves in the system. You can't really "cheat" your way to rank up in 10th Planet as most of us here can recognize skill, *even us lowly, but proud, white belts.*

Leave it just the way it is! If it's not broke, don't fix it....

Everything is fine the way it is. A trip to HQ for a week isn't too much to ask. Nate and I try to get out there once a year and it costs about $500 total each. That's airfare, rental car, hotel, gas and food for a full week. We don't stay in a crappy hotel and rent a piece of crap car either.

If you stayed in a Hostel and found alternative transportation, the trip can easily cost less.

Plan the trip a year in advance and stay disciplined about putting the money away. A dollar here and there can add up to a week at HQ.

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Should I start giving out brown belts at seminars to instructors who won't compete and won't travel to Cali to test themselves against HQ purples, browns and blacks?

Should I?

What yalls think?

I will if most of you think i should.

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If people don't compete, what would it matter to the person if they got a belt or not? This is combat sports, ppl gotta put everything on the mat. Unless they are an instructor - then its the instructors job to provide and create the submission fighters and let the pupils leave it on the mat.

I personally enjoy an easy going atmosphere inside a gym, but some ppl just go soft. I've seen some places that are straight up carebear gyms without any intentions on challenging their games in competition. And as a result their games is hindered, never evolves and it becomes the herds mentality...

Although, I personally cannot do this myself. I think You should combine 1 and 2. Ppl compete, submit their vids and apply for testing.

I work 68 hours a week and only get 1 week (company designated) of vacation a year. And I use that one week to take the 2k mile trip to visit our families back home.

All competing I do is on very little sleep and within 3 hours driving distance.

All because I love the sport.

Eddie,
I think your criteria is very fair and still keeps the integrity of rank. Those who cannot meet the criteria for whatever reason will just have to accept it. You can't please everyone and if you lessen the requirements it could take something away from the achievements of the ones who did follow said requirements.

my .02
Joel

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Than its not important enough to you, that is excatly the sacrifice were referring to. Who doesn't have those commitments? Everyone has work and family obligations. Since I graduated college I've had a full time job (I worked in human services for peanuts for 15 years), ran a school(which only made enough to pay for itself to stay open) on top of my own training and a wife and family obligations. Yet I still found time, and busted my ass saving money to go train with my Sambo Coach in Canada, My Judo Coach in Detriot, in Iowa with Pat Miletich and obviously at HQ with Eddie.

If you WANT it you will find a way.

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Damn. I gotta say, I'm honored to even have a chance to be taught by Coach Herzog and his crew. That's dedication.

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Originally Posted by Christopher Piper

If people don't compete, what would it matter to the person if they got a belt or not? This is combat sports, ppl gotta put everything on the mat. Unless they are an instructor - then its the instructors job to provide and create the submission fighters and let the pupils leave it on the mat.

I personally enjoy an easy going atmosphere inside a gym, but some ppl just go soft. I've seen some places that are straight up carebear gyms without any intentions on challenging their games in competition. And as a result their games is hindered, never evolves and it becomes the herds mentality...

Although, I personally cannot do this myself. I think You should combine 1 and 2. Ppl compete, submit their vids and apply for testing.

I work 68 hours a week and only get 1 week (company designated) of vacation a year. And I use that one week to take the 2k mile trip to visit our families back home.

All competing I do is on very little sleep and within 3 hours driving distance.

All because I love the sport.

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Damn dude. Props to you as well. I thought I had it tough. Not even.



Eddie, for what it's worth, I appreciate your love for the guys who train the system, but in the end, you just gotta be a leader and stick to your guns. Even if everyone said otherwise, sometimes you just gotta stick to your guns. I think your requirements are more than fair.

Eddie you have built an incredible affiliation and gained a huge amount of support in what is really a short amount of time up against a lot of negative resistance and you did it on your terms. I would say you know what you are doing. I think your questions are really an attempt to send a message and the answers from your affiliate instructors have driven that point home loud and clear.


I bet $ I could guess the source of the whining but I hope I'm wrong.

I agree with Zog. The fact that Eddie and his schools put out SO MUCH free content all over the web, plus providing us all with the books to work out of. He even now has a shirt for guys like me, who are putting in the numbers on our own. I don't compete due to both my knees being shot, so asking me to come to HQ if I want to rank up seems like a small thing to ask, since he has already given me hours and and hours of what feel like private lessons, and several of his students, Zog being a prime example, put out new videos all the time. He even posts a log of what his school worked on during a given class, a log I do my best to drill with my partners.

On top of that, Eddie, Zog, or any of the rest will PERSONALLY RESPOND to messages and questions you send them. How can anyone possibly complain about a trade off like that?

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Originally Posted by Jonathan Wylie

I bet $ I could guess the source of the whining

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I think that's it as well Jonathan. You may have hit the nail right on the head

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Should I start giving out brown belts at seminars to instructors who won't compete and won't travel to Cali to test themselves against HQ purples, browns and blacks?

Should I?

What yalls think?

I will if most of you think i should.

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Dseffinately don't change things, 10th Planet has good continuity with in its ranks. With the way it is now, when you get advice from a 10th Planet brown or black belt you know he's legit, earned his belt, and is giving out good advice.

You know what, I think it depends ENTIRELY on their situation. It's cool for me to say I can get there once a year, but sometimes we go through money problems, we expect children, we move house, we have a job we can't get away from for long enough without sacrificing too much money.

A lot of us can make it down there, I'm 21 and I live at home. I try to make it down once a year to HQ and I've been the past two years. Unfortunately, due to unforseen circumstances, I won't be able to make it. Spilling water on your laptop which is the source of some of your income costs a lot of money to fix. For example, £650, nearly a new computer. That's my excuse for this year, but I will FOR SURE come down next year for a month to make up for it. I can't wait.

So, I think special exceptions can be made for people who are unable to travel. You should give out belts according to their skill level, determination, loyalty and situation. However, they better be at an unbelievably high level to be given it, something which you will be able to determine straight away. We've all rolled with White belts who are way overdue their Blue (or even Purple) belts. Maybe they are super determined, but super poor. Maybe they have a low-end job and need to support a family, but that doesn't take away from their skill level OR their loyalty.

That's just my two cents, take it as you like, :)

From what I read, purple's can promote blues. Blues and purples aren't the issue though. It's browns and blacks. IMO, if you can make the sacrifice to even get to that point (years), then you can figure a way to make a sacrifice to put in the time to get promoted. In other words, you spent years training to get to brown/black. I'm sure you can figure out a way to take a week to get to HQ.