Masters division?

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

Zog, would you say you're more or less deadly now?

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Psh whether he's more or less deadly, he's still friggin deadly. Haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David 'Lo Pan' Callaham

I have been competing back and forth in Masters and Adult divisions for the last five years (since I turned 30, which more or less coincided with my first tournament), and here's my take:

- In Adults you are likely to get more people in your bracket and they obviously will be younger and, more often than not, faster than the guys in Masters. The trade-off is strength. The guys in Adult, especially the ones in their early 20's, don't typically have the full-body strength of the older guys. It's not that they're not strong, it's just that oftentimes they haven't figured out how to best utilize and manage their growing body yet. Practically speaking, what this has meant for me is that the Adults can outpace me and scramble much faster than me, but if I can get my hands on them, I'm probably going to manhandle them physically (just talking about strength vs strength here; technique obviously varies guy-to-guy).

- In Masters, the inverse is true. The guys tend to be slower... and what's more important, they KNOW it, so their approach is usually more thought-out and specific. You don't get a lot of dudes in Masters whose general plan is "just get in there, fling myself around, see what happens." Instead, you get guys who know what their limitations are and work very diligently to avoid them. On top of that, the strength difference, in my experience, has been nothing short of alarming. I know we've all heard of "old man strength," and when we're young we scoff at the notion, but let me tell you little fuckers what -- that's for real. It's life's tribulations manifested into physicality. To a man, the strongest guys I have ever grappled with were in Masters divisions. You don't know what strength is until you've been grabbed by a dude who spends his weekdays wrangling his three sons.

There's an extra dimension to this conversation worth mentioning -- the skill level at Masters has the potential to be WAY higher than Adult, especially at the lower belt levels. Now of course you can have a prodigy like Ant who is a fucking killer at 18, but more often than not, if you're in a Blue Belt Adult division you are looking at guys who have been training for a few years, max. But in Masters, you get these dudes who have been blue belts for 8, 9 years, but who changed jobs, had kids, got deployed, whatever... point being, as you get older life happens, and for some of these guys it interrupts training and delays promotions. Which is fine... like I said, that's life. But a 7 year Blue Belt with Dad Strength is not the same as a whip-quick 21 year-old who just got his Blue Belt.

So that's my take. I've won tournaments in both Adult and Masters and gotten fucking shellacked in both as well. Nowadays it just comes down to what sort of shape I feel I'm in and what kind of experience I am looking to have: If I want fewer matches but each of them to feel like getting run over by a truck, I do Masters. If my cardio is up and I want to throw someone around (assuming I can catch them), then I do Adults.

To each his own, though.

The Aristocrats.

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Wisdom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David 'Lo Pan' Callaham

I have been competing back and forth in Masters and Adult divisions for the last five years (since I turned 30, which more or less coincided with my first tournament), and here's my take:

- In Adults you are likely to get more people in your bracket and they obviously will be younger and, more often than not, faster than the guys in Masters. The trade-off is strength. The guys in Adult, especially the ones in their early 20's, don't typically have the full-body strength of the older guys. It's not that they're not strong, it's just that oftentimes they haven't figured out how to best utilize and manage their growing body yet. Practically speaking, what this has meant for me is that the Adults can outpace me and scramble much faster than me, but if I can get my hands on them, I'm probably going to manhandle them physically (just talking about strength vs strength here; technique obviously varies guy-to-guy).

- In Masters, the inverse is true. The guys tend to be slower... and what's more important, they KNOW it, so their approach is usually more thought-out and specific. You don't get a lot of dudes in Masters whose general plan is "just get in there, fling myself around, see what happens." Instead, you get guys who know what their limitations are and work very diligently to avoid them. On top of that, the strength difference, in my experience, has been nothing short of alarming. I know we've all heard of "old man strength," and when we're young we scoff at the notion, but let me tell you little fuckers what -- that's for real. It's life's tribulations manifested into physicality. To a man, the strongest guys I have ever grappled with were in Masters divisions. You don't know what strength is until you've been grabbed by a dude who spends his weekdays wrangling his three sons.

There's an extra dimension to this conversation worth mentioning -- the skill level at Masters has the potential to be WAY higher than Adult, especially at the lower belt levels. Now of course you can have a prodigy like Ant who is a fucking killer at 18, but more often than not, if you're in a Blue Belt Adult division you are looking at guys who have been training for a few years, max. But in Masters, you get these dudes who have been blue belts for 8, 9 years, but who changed jobs, had kids, got deployed, whatever... point being, as you get older life happens, and for some of these guys it interrupts training and delays promotions. Which is fine... like I said, that's life. But a 7 year Blue Belt with Dad Strength is not the same as a whip-quick 21 year-old who just got his Blue Belt.

So that's my take. I've won tournaments in both Adult and Masters and gotten fucking shellacked in both as well. Nowadays it just comes down to what sort of shape I feel I'm in and what kind of experience I am looking to have: If I want fewer matches but each of them to feel like getting run over by a truck, I do Masters. If my cardio is up and I want to throw someone around (assuming I can catch them), then I do Adults.

To each his own, though.

The Aristocrats.

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+1

One major advantage to Masters is there are usually less matches. When i was in my 20's and healthy this would of seemed ludacris as the more matches i got the better. But at 35 with a busted up knee and waning testosterone I know it would be difficult for me to go 6 or 7 matches deep and still be firing on all cylinders. its a good way for older guys to compete with other guys their own age an weight and not have to worry about losing because of gasing.

Personally if i lose in a tourny i want it to be because i made a mistake with my jitz...not because I got out cardioed in my 8th match by a 20 year old wrestler with no job who trains 24/7.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

Zog, would you say you're more or less deadly now?

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Its a matter of perspective:

The major differences:
(Younger Me) youth, durability, explosiveness and mind set, confidence.
VS.
(Now) experience, patience, technique, flow and most importantly awareness.



Injures and all I take me now, but I for sure would pull fucking guard in an instant! ;)

Well depends on what tourny also bc at naga i had go against black and browns that are instructors with at least 15 yrs of ju jitsu..in adult you get guys who are blues or purples with cpl of yrs of jitz.... yes master is man strength and adult more matches....at ibjjf events adult is harder bc more matches and cardio but your naga or local tourny it just a trade off...im 37 with 2 yrs of bjj i compete at advance and black belt adult or master ..injuries suck and all but cardio is your own fualt bc you can get better cardio if u train...

I'm about to be 37, and I do the masters division from time to time because I know the 20 somethings can handle the adult divisions. It also helps when it comes to the overall team trophy at bigger tournaments.