arm triangle flawed in general?

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...photos/err.gif

Let me help you out.

First, understand that people are going to be condescending for a reason: an admitted noob just said that a consistently effective 100+ year old submission hold is "seriously flawed in general."

2ndly, just because there's an escape to it doesn't mean the whole submission is flawed. There are escapes to triangle chokes. Escapes from armbars. It doesn't mean they're flawed.

3rd, it sounds like you don't understand the arm triangle and haven't been put into too many legit arm triangles. That defense might work well before the triangle is locked 100% (maybe). Once you're in a fully locked arm triangle, like Dewitt said, it's hard enough to answer the phone. And playing the game of "pain vs blood choke" is a recipe for passing out.

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Great post

Chris, this is really easy. Your logic is that you can use your elbow to pry his head away. It's the same logic you see in action movies, were you see the hero elbow the villain in the head when he's got his back. The only problem with reality is that when you try to elbow a guy that has your back, you won't connect with your elbow 99% of the time, you'll connect with your triceps. Same with the arm triangle. He's putting pressure on your shoulder. His head is nowhere near your elbow. Leverage wise, you've already lost the battle. All you have is your triceps, with less leverage than he's got, so you're stuck. Your elbow can't reach his face because he's in too tight.
The reason the arm triangle doesn't work sometimes is because the angle has to be right, the grip, and all the mechanics. I suck at it, half the time I'm just cranking the guys neck. The other half it's tight, and they tap. But as far as escaping it, people rarely escape it when it's on.

The arm triangle is oooold..! :D Before the Marquise of Queensbery in the 1800's, wrestling was still allowed in boxing, and even the boxers utilized it. (Standing arm triangles)

My best advice is to test it for yourself. have a good bjj practitioner slap it on, and try to escape! You'll see why it's hard. (Unless you have retard strength) I've found that if I can move my body from side to side, and use all my strength early on, ( I'm pretty strong corewise), I might escape it. But that's not my elbow, that's my whole body trying to get to it's feet. And even then, half the time it just speeds up the process, and I tap even earlier.

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Originally Posted by Jason 'J-Faz' Farren

I'm now dumber for having read that, I award you no points, and may good have mercy on your soul.

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+1

The Arm Triangle is the best submission for MMA, in my opinion.

nevermind bas rutten already pointed this escape out with a slightly different method..... I kinda knew this had to be a defense. it always got me in a rage when people just lay there like they have two usesless arms

Could u post a video demo of the proposed escape? I can't really visualize this well at the moment...

Ryan Hall and Jeff Glover have really nice arm triangle defences. I can't find the clips but the one Ryan uses is really strong he bases using his free arm with his hand flat against his lower back which raises his hips vertical as high as possible allowing lots of space to breath, almost as if its as far removed as being flat as could be in that podition.
It's probably the same one I've seen Jeff glover use but in jeffs case he rolled in one movement and ended up on top.

Ryan's was against Robson Moura I think, or it could have been Cobrinha.

Eddie survived Leo Veiera's arm triangle.

Isn't the arm triangle like, Eddie's best move in his whole game? It seems like if he's not catching guys with rubber guard/spiderweb/the truck, he's taking them out with arm triangles from any position.

Pretty silly question for a forum on that guy's website.

The only legit defense I've come across to a fully locked in arm triangle is taking the trapped arm passing it under your opposite leg and clasping your hands together. You then push down with your leg using lower body strength to make room to breathe. But even then a guy can go knee on belly and smash your leg down to break your grip and finish.