How important is strength and conditioning to YOU?

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

Until you learn to move in the right direction at the right time, how fast or hard you can push, pull, or explode means nothing. This is not an opinion. When your technique is perfect, then attributes come in to play. Until then they are nullified by leverage and timing as Chris stated.

Not tryin to be abrasive. Is what it is.

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So once you learn those things added strength isn't beneficial to you?

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

When your technique is perfect, then attributes come in to play.

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No. Strength is an attribute.

This is a tough one to really put into words as I can only really base any experience of mine up until the level I am at, which is far away from mastering it.

You have skill level, and you have physical attributes. The beauty of jiu jitsu is that it relies heavily on both.
For me at least the idea of the game is to continually increase skill level (which is done in various ways) and ensure your physical condition is able to allow you to perform the techniques you have learnt, with an amount of precision, over a sustained period of time.
This encompasses everything you should need to eventually master it.
Your job as the jiu jitsu player is to then make all the decisions on how to best spend your training sessions. Then when you compete your performance is a reflection of your training.

Somewhere between the extremes of you don't need any strength and you only need strength and nothing else lies the only certainty for everybody. I would imagine for most of us we conciously gear our training toward the former end of the scale but even within that there is giant scope for variety!

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Originally Posted by Wade Hamilton

Do you think Eddie Bravo, Marcelo Garcia, and Helio Gracie (back in his day) do squats and bench press after every training session and that's how they are dominating guys? If you're using strength in your jiu jitsu technique you're doing something wrong. Cardio however, is important for obvious reasons.

If I were in a tournament I'd much rather be in a 170 lbs division lean with great cardio than a 190 division being much stronger with reduced cardio and competing with guys much bigger. Not to mention the weaker you are, you are forced to develop perfect technique against stronger opponents.

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Eddie does do squats, not sure about bench. Marcelo says he doesn't nor did Helio, but many other Dominating JJ players incorporate some sort or S&C. For anyone that watched Metamoris would see a common theme. Most incorporate to supplement but their main focus is JJ. But if people still believe that bench and similar "body Building" training is beneficial then they are mistaken. The program we focus on is core/mid-line stabilization, posterior chain engagement, and high intensity output, all things that help jj practitioners. Crazy amounts of time spent on technique is invaluable and should also be a tenant of training. The real question is who are we preaching to, the person who does jj for fun and to get in shape, the weekend warrior, or a seasoned competitor that is training to attain the status of world champion. These factors need to be in place before we could really answer this broad question.

Wait so eating Just Fruits and Vegetables isn't enough...

I don't compete often, and I'm not cutting weight or changing up my life or training schedule when I do, so I have a very different view on the issue of S&C than some one who is more competition focused.

For me, it all comes down to being healthier, better equipped (both mentally and physically) to enjoy and thrive in life. So, strength and conditioning work is hugely important to me. I work out 6 times a week, and roll with the local club 3-4 times a week (usually right after a lifting session in place of the conditioning segment).

I would no more give up lifting big weights than I would my mat time or range time. These are not competition tools to me, but integral parts of my life.

I'm 27 years into my martial arts journey and 37 years into my life journey, and even though the two started at different times, I don't plan to end one until the other one is done.

Plus, as Jim Wendler says: "Stronger people are harder to kill." :cool:

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Originally Posted by Mike May

I don't compete often, and I'm not cutting weight or changing up my life or training schedule when I do, so I have a very different view on the issue of S&C than some one who is more competition focused.

For me, it all comes down to being healthier, better equipped (both mentally and physically) to enjoy and thrive in life. So, strength and conditioning work is hugely important to me. I work out 6 times a week, and roll with the local club 3-4 times a week (usually right after a lifting session in place of the conditioning segment).

I would no more give up lifting big weights than I would my mat time or range time. These are not competition tools to me, but integral parts of my life.

I'm 27 years into my martial arts journey and 37 years into my life journey, and even though the two started at different times, I don't plan to end one until the other one is done.

Plus, as Jim Wendler says: "Stronger people are harder to kill." :cool:

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Love it, This is a healthy lifestyle and stronger people are harder to kill.

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Originally Posted by John Mejia

Wait so eating Just Fruits and Vegetables isn't enough...

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Carahlo John Meija, you know all jiu need is the Fruits and Vegetals.

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Originally Posted by Mike May

I don't compete often, and I'm not cutting weight or changing up my life or training schedule when I do, so I have a very different view on the issue of S&C than some one who is more competition focused.

For me, it all comes down to being healthier, better equipped (both mentally and physically) to enjoy and thrive in life. So, strength and conditioning work is hugely important to me. I work out 6 times a week, and roll with the local club 3-4 times a week (usually right after a lifting session in place of the conditioning segment).

I would no more give up lifting big weights than I would my mat time or range time. These are not competition tools to me, but integral parts of my life.

I'm 27 years into my martial arts journey and 37 years into my life journey, and even though the two started at different times, I don't plan to end one until the other one is done.

Plus, as Jim Wendler says: "Stronger people are harder to kill." :cool:

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The quote from Wendler sums it up nicely.

Are they? To who? If strength is hard for you to overcome or cause a failure in tech then it was your tech that failed, or it was his tech behind his strength that succeeded.

The the decline bench is a good example here. It is a very powerful compound movement that can be useful as fuck in jj. You can press your way out of mount or side. It can be very frustrating to one who lacks the tech to deal with such an attribute. They just chalk it up to "Godam you're strong." If you just push back against his line of direction, even with you're entire bodyweight, you will fail. Because many can press twice that.

But what if, while he was executing the decline press, you turned it into an incline mid rep? Or a barbell incline into flat dumbbell flies? What if you started flipping the dumbbells 45% over and over again and changing the angle mid rep? Eventually your just a strong guy with your arms extended and a dumbbell in a very bad position.