Why don't BJJ schools practice where eye gouges, biting, and groin grabs are allowed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AJ Camacho

Things like that cannot be practiced in real time. They can only be done with fake gestures or soft strikes relegating them to fight theory rather than any technique that can be drilled in live rolling. Additionally, all dirty strikes are still subject to the rules of dominant position just like any other strike. If I mount a dirty fighter and he reaches down for a groin grab, I can more easily gouge his eyes out.

Personally, I don't see the value in training a dirty tactic that can only be trained within the confines of a preplanned drill or one step. I mean take any standard BJJ move for example. There is a drastic difference between a drilled arm bar and a live dynamic arm bar in a live rolling session that must adapt to the ever changing situation. Drills make up the pieces that we put together as a puzzle during live rolling.

If I drilled dirty tactics would they effectively carry over into their first use in a dynamic and live self defense situation? I don't know.

---

I would disagree with you somewhat aj. Ive trained parker system kenpo for on and off for ten years, and we do drills where we do what Ed Parker called "carrying on a conversation" which basically meant that we practiced striking on a control level that you and your partner felt comfortable with. higher belts were encouraged to talk louder than lower belts, which meant you struck harder and faster. eye gouges were simulated through open palm strikes to the forehead, but considering that everyone was supposed to be wearing cups, groin shots were delivered lightly to the groin (sometimes harder, lol), but at the end of the day, our focus was on target awareness and ability to control our striking at a level necessary for the situation. As I have taught my students over the years, does it make my technique less effective because I can control my speed and striking as I wish, or would I be better if I hit hard and uncontrolled. And I agree that grappling is certainly different in real fight situations than in the gym. So I give "lost" some credit for thinking beyond the gym and realizing that one day he may be in fight for his life and those dirty fighting techniques might make the difference of whether he lives or dies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Don Blankenship

This is a ridiculous thread.

---

It's basic self defense, I think what is ridiculous is a BJJ black belt having to wear a patch over his eye for the rest of his life because he was eye gouged by someone with no martial arts experience.

On the flip side, if I was in a fight for my life eye gouging would be my go to move, not the facialplata.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lost

It's basic self defense, I think what is ridiculous is a BJJ black belt having to wear a patch over his eye for the rest of his life because he was eye gouged by someone with no martial arts experience.

---

You just basically admitted that there is no "technique" involved. If there is no technique, then I would think there is no need to drill it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandon Palmer

You just basically admitted that there is no "technique" involved. If there is no technique, then I would think there is no need to drill it?

---

I think the thread has a winner.........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandon Palmer

You just basically admitted that there is no "technique" involved. If there is no technique, then I would think there is no need to drill it?

---

Just grapple like I said and see how often you can be eye gouged, a lot of positions, takedowns, and guard passes aren't ones you'd want to use in a real fight.

stlnl, there are NO winners in this thread.

And lost, in my younger days I was subject to get into a lot of fights outside the ring, I have definitely put Jiu Jitsu to the test in the street. Some things work, and some dont. Chokes are money, kimuras, and anything that lands you on top are ok, however, armbars and anything from your back (when there are multiple opponents, which there always seems to be, even if you don't know it at first) are a good way to learn the hard way. And frankly, unless i'm in a life or death situation, i'm not going to bite, eye gouge, fishhook, or anthing else like that. I'd rather get some bumps & bruises than take the chance of hurting someone so bad I have to do ANY time for it or lose my job or security clearance.

I mean, I almost always carry a knife, and have been in many fights, sometimes outnumbered, while carrying that knife. But at no time did i think that my life was in danger so the knife stayed put as it should have. There are VERY FEW instances that a person will run into that there will be need for "deadly force", and if thats a prime concern, I would suggest purchasing a handgun.

Also, an apple a day is a good policy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lost

It's basic self defense, I think what is ridiculous is a BJJ black belt having to wear a patch over his eye for the rest of his life because he was eye gouged by someone with no martial arts experience.

---

Trust me the odds are against the guy trying to poke eyes.

I used to train in traditional martial arts. We had all kinds of little drills for throat chopping, eye gouging, and sack punching. Years of training that stuff never gave me a real sense of confidence that I could somehow turn on that "switch" and become a lethal ball tearing face biting machine. Training in grappling now, there is no switch. It's just always on. If some hobo tried to tackle me I'd more than likely laugh and sprawl his head into the concrete without even giving it a thought.

If your techniques work for you, that's awesome. And I'm not even here to say that such techniques are nonsense. My only point is that real time, 100%, full speed sparring/rolling gives a sense of acclimation and awareness that cannot be replicated in drills, one steps, or simulated attacks. This to me is one of the greatest assets of jiujitsu and back to the OP's original question, is why moves that cannot be sparred at 100% can be omitted from the lexicon.

I don't see why this is such a big deal, isn't one reason we train armbars is to keep from getting our arms broken in a fight. Shouldn't we also train eye gouges for the same reason? Wouldn't you feel horrible if a student of yours went into a fight against a superior striker, went for a takedown and ended up blinded for the rest of his life.

AJ, a simple scratch above the eye while I'm grappling 100% will show me something in the end, it doesn't need to end the match but it'll give me something to think about.