douche moves

I do all this shit to my training partners. Just controlled. I apologize while im doing it, even though i hope and know they would do it to me. My job is to

Oops -protect and finish as fast as possible.

That is crazy about the gag reflex. It feels pretty squishy when he's half in and out. I have just let go before. Legitimate concern it seems.

Face locks,twisting knee locks,crown crushes,grinding upper lip are a few d-bag moves not to be done in the gym unless your learning them, but in comps let it rip they work very well.

face lock, crown crush? are these catch terms?

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Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson

but if you tap someone with submissions which are simple then are you not uping their game for them? My coach repeatedly had to open hand choke from the mount (rape choke) me but after a few times i learned how to quickly deal with it and now I dont believe it will ever get me, same with the can opener and my favorite training partner, i never had to tap to it cause he was not putting on fast or hard but he allowed the chance to figure out how to deal with it and now i know and when it happens i just deal with it.

It really depends if you're training for self deference, mma or sport jiujitsu.

I want to know what Zog thinks about this stuff? Whats this jugular death risk thing?

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All legal when applied with control in my academy. The only restriction I have is twisting leglocks, which are reserved for blues and up.

Not sure about face lock, but I've heard cranium crunch/crown crush in catch in regards to moves that just put insane pressure on the head (example; from top, getting their head between your calf and thigh and sitting on it). It's painful as all get out. Personally, I don't consider any submission a douche move as long as the intention is not to injure someone, but I see where it could be considered that.

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Originally Posted by Tom Carbone

I dont do it, but IMO, if you tap from it then you should learn to defend it. If it just hurts, you learn to toughen up.

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Same. As a big up, I'm well aware that I can develop bad habits from muscling everything. I recall sound advice from Sarkis. It was something along the lines of "muscling will always be available but it's unreliable if you're tired. Technique always wins." So I made a point to try and be more refined and avoid muscling. And he was right. Whenever I wanted or needed to muscle it, I could, except when I was tired. Then ihad no choice to go with tech, which got me less tired anyway.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

All legal when applied with control in my academy. The only restriction I have is twisting leglocks, which are reserved for blues and up.

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Yup. And I appreciate that. It made me a more well rounded grappler compared to my new crop of partners.

I agree with Tom, Aaron, & Chris. We compete a lot at our school. You fight how you train. You have to learn how to deal with grinding pressure and do your best to learn to get out without exposing yourself if possible. It's a game. The game is to make the other person give you something. I def feel like there are some douche move, but a sub is a sub.

Pain moves..like calf crushes and arm crushes? We do those on the regular. If it hurts, tap, or expose something else I want, maybe the armbar or twister. Now obviously, it depends on who you roll with. If a day 1 guy walks through the door I would hope you wouldn't put 100% pressure on his face, etc. We have a guy in our gym that loves gag reflexes and Ezekiels. I'm glad he does bc it will be nothing new when it happens outside of our gym. I'm prepared.

It's all Jiu Jitsu. I want to know all of it. I don't avoid doing things bc they suck for the other person. Accept what's going on and make your move. But hey, we have a lot of competitors in our gym, so maybe it different elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Tori Applegate

I agree with Tom, Aaron, & Chris. We compete a lot at our school. You fight how you train. You have to learn how to deal with grinding pressure and do your best to learn to get out without exposing yourself if possible. It's a game. The game is to make the other person give you something. I def feel like there are some douche move, but a sub is a sub.

Pain moves..like calf crushes and arm crushes? We do those on the regular. If it hurts, tap, or expose something else I want, maybe the armbar or twister. Now obviously, it depends on who you roll with. If a day 1 guy walks through the door I would hope you wouldn't put 100% pressure on his face, etc. We have a guy in our gym that loves gag reflexes and Ezekiels. I'm glad he does bc it will be nothing new when it happens outside of our gym. I'm prepared.

It's all Jiu Jitsu. I want to know all of it. I don't avoid doing things bc they suck for the other person. Accept what's going on and make your move. But hey, we have a lot of competitors in our gym, so maybe it different elsewhere.

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By "pain move" I mean something that depends purely on pain compliance. A calf crush can break your leg or separate a tendon; an arm crush can separate a bicep. I mean a move that doesn't really threaten physical injury if you fail to tap, it just causes pain. Those are just annoying to me and don't fit my style at all. I'm not a fierce competitor. I'm much more into the relaxed roll. A move that just hurts and doesn't require any real finesse or technique -- and more importantly won't really defend you in a serious fight -- falls into the douchy category for me insofar as the gym is concerned. I'd much rather hit a clean Duda or calf crush than dig my shin into the side of your head for three solid minutes. In competition,, all bets are off. If the ol' shin-on-the-head trick works, by all means use it.

dude, it takes technique to make little things hurt and make hitting all the uncomfortable details parts of your game. If every time you grab a limb , you have a finger digging into a tendon or nerve, I think that's pretty cool, for sure a matter of the right partner and the right time.If people remember, even subconsciously, that wrestling you hurts, that's good.