How to have an impeccable guard game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo1NUdmaT54

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peterm

I tend to be of the view- like Brian I think- that it is better to train under the conditions that you will meet and to perfect exactly the same movements you will actually employ which of course is hard enough.

---

I'm too newbie to have any direct opinion, but this really makes sense to me and is something I've always thought when people discuss this topic.

In fact I have always said that if I was going to do MMA, I would train Jiu Jitsu exclusively in MMA gloves. Train under the conditions you will meet... That makes a lot of sense to me. But does anyone actually do this? Probably not many. Most guys train for MMA in a gi with bare hands... crazy if you ask me, but then what do I know, this is just intellectual speculation on my part.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian Debes

So.... once again I'm going to comment on the no-gi vs gi thing. The best way to get good at a thing is do that thing. That's hard wired into our DNA. Wanna get good at a certain guard? Do that guard. There can be carry over from other things for sure (ex. working your butterfly guard could improve your x-guard but not as much as working x-guard would. The reason you work butterfly guard is to get good at butterfly guard. Then maybe you can use it to set up your X-guard, but as far as being in X-guard and working from there, the fastest improvement will always be to work from there). Same applies to the gi.

As far as this garbage about "you must (insert claim)", I'll just say that NOT training in the gi has been the edge that I have used to achieve my competitive success and I have almost never gotten my guard passed in competition, not even by good black belt...

There has also been several gi black belts I've watched get repeatedly schooled by my blue belts in the last few months, and oddly enough, its usually their guard (and leg lock defense) that is the most lacking.


Keep training my friend, you'll gravitate to certain guards naturally, don't stress to much about "you must do this or that" just enjoy the journey my friend :)

---

This.

Bottom line, if you want your no-gi guard to be more effective in no-gi, train no-gi. If you want your gi guard to be more effective in the gi, train in the gi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liquidrob

If you see it as a training tool it makes more sense, people use training tools all the time is sports, weighted vests, runners with parachutes, resistance bands, whatever

Of course you can get a good guard just training No Gi, but IMO, from what other people have said and my own personal experience, you develop a better guard faster with the Gi, it doesn't mean you always need to train Gi

It means that you can use it as a tool, like I said, you can't simulate the passing/retention game in No Gi, it's not really possible

but of course do what you want to do, JJM seems like a good source of information on this subject though

---

I absolutely agree. I enjoy no gi much more and I prefer to train it these days. The specific battle of guard retention vs guard pass is most highly contested in the gi, and that's where you see it play out at the highest level. It's actually pretty rare in no gi to see clean guard passes, and what I mean by that isn;t like a knee cut into an armbar, or a leg drag into an arm triangle or to the back. I just mean straight up a clean guard pass. JT Torres is one of the best at it, but it's just much more rare in high level no gi.

Being able to grip the belt and the pants allows for so many different passing options that just aren't really there in the gi, or at least aren't there in as much detail. Unless you just wanted to let someone grab your board shorts, it's just going to be very hard to develop your open guard retention as well as you could against someone that's rally putting the heat on you by trying to pass your guard by gripping your clothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo1NUdmaT54

---

Fantastic resource for your open guard retention. probably the best I've ever seen. Plus there is a lot of wrestling stuff on there blended with jiu-jitsu that frankly isn't being taught anywhere else as far as I know.

Arman- I do not think that reference to lineage really addresses the significance of Eddie discarding the gi as a training tool.

However I think that you do properly sum up the issue in your post and we have essentially a specificity debate which is "train as you would fight" or as I think Brian and Zog have put it, improve your no gi guard by training your guard no gi v train your guard in a non specific manner to improve your guard specific performance.

My own view is:

1. I cannot think of an example in sport where specific movement patterns are not trained in the way that they are performed.
Wrestling may or may not be a good analogy but it has never sought to enhance technique/movement patterns by altering
the precise performance of those movement patterns by restrictive clothing.

2. I have not personally found Liquid Rob's assertion that "Once the Gi comes off you will notice how much easier it is to fight
off passes, create spaces, roll, invert, etc." to be true so while I will concede that some may derive this benefit this cannot
be asserted in absolute terms.

It does not appear that those of you who do consider that the gi is a useful training tool are prepared to address the implied criticism that 10th Planet training methodology is flawed or that Eddie is blind to the use of the gi as a training tool.

To my understanding, the significance of Eddie discarding the gi as a training tool is simple and one-fold. The gi is not the same fighting stance as MMA, and 10p was created as a way to improve the jiu jitsu that was having success in MMA competition. I referred to his lineage simply as a way to indicate that he comes from the gi, whether or not he endorses it to his students. That much will never change. In my eyes, it's justified for him to make the choice to drop the gi given that he's done his time in the gi and learned enough principles from it to understand it's advantages and it's limitations. I can only speak for myself, but I buy into 10p knowing full well that it does not address gi-specific jiu jitsu. If that's to my detriment, then I'll look at it in the same vein as how other schools don't teach 10p specific techniques. No one knows/teaches everything, hence why I'm of the mind to train as much as possible, at as many places as possible, with as many people as possible. Speaking to some guys who've been training for a long time, they told me that their improvement in no-gi came a lot of time from gi, that ultimately, it was consistent mat time, and lots of it, that made them better more than anything. That's all I was trying to say.

I love how none of these literally answer my question. Keep up the good work :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrTectonicFusion

I love how none of these literally answer my question. Keep up the good work :o

---

Want the secret to build an impeccable guard game? Take it from Kurt; he knows way more than me.
Attachment 3268

^ good night IRENE!