Double slit experiment.. what does this mean for reality?

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

07-01-2011, 10:30 AM
Tom Van

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Evans

Here's my take on this. I studied astrophysics at UC: Berkeley, and this is definitely a subject that is not understood. But I think this is a result of one simple thing: humans perceive the universe from the fourth dimension (we can objectively see 3 dimensions, and we experience the fourth - time - in a linear way). But, the universe is not 4 dimensional. Our eyes, brains, and generally our sensors condense the world into these dimensions to make it palatable. So when you translate, things get lost, just like when you take a 3D picture and put it on a flat TV screen. Since the breaking point of what we can see is dimension #4, it's hard to imagine, but just like things can be moved between places, things can exist in different places at different times. When you consider Einstein's idea that all time is happening at once, but we merely experience it in from the viewpoint of time, what you are doing is locking the actual event into a 4D frame of reference, which screws it all up.

Here's something that can really screw with your head: If every "time" is happening at the same time, and we simply cannot visualize the fourth dimension, what does this mean about free will? Doesn't that mean that there is only one possible future, stemming from one single past? If so, doesn't that mean your decisions have already been determined, and that free will does not exist?

I think a more contemporary picture is every possible future exists, stemming from every possible past. Free will does not exist, but for another reason: the totality of our being is a sum of genetics and environmental stimuli. Free will is an illusion.
07-01-2011, 12:40 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby rivers

No, it is not set for good, but it seems that even a non-conscious measurement(a photograph) that is intended to be observed can also collapse the function.

I didnt mention that in the summary.. but that is one of the most amazing parts about it.. I saw that they were able to record the slots that the photons would go through.. And no matter how long they waited (i think they only have done it up to 24 hours just to prove a point).. But everytime they would view the recording and check the results, it would be two lines, if they would delete the recording before looking at the results, The photons would act like waves and create many lines again.. I was thinking.. does this at all tie into the multi-verse theory? For instance before you look at something, it is in a state of infinite possibilities. But once you look, You see the one possibility "determined" for your universe. but simultaneously all the other multiverses are seeing their different "determined" possibility.
07-01-2011, 12:54 PM
Joachim Hoff

Well, if you constantly choose what is considered to be the path of smart abstract thinking, instead of what your instincts tell you.. (Nietzsche, "the mind is nothing but a plaything of the body) -Doesn't that imply that you have free will? ... No wait, it implies I am predetermined to choose abstract thinking as an alternative to following my instincts, which again leaves me without a free will.. hmmm... But it means I'm smart! I feel better already! :)

Another thing to consider: If I have no free will, how can I be morally culpable?

This shit rocks, I'm gonna hit the town tonight, behave badly, grope girls, and feel good about myself! :D
07-01-2011, 01:05 PM
Tom Van

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu

I didnt mention that in the summary.. but that is one of the most amazing parts about it.. I saw that they were able to record the slots that the photons would go through.. And no matter how long they waited (i think they only have done it up to 24 hours just to prove a point).. But everytime they would view the recording and check the results, it would be two lines, if they would delete the recording before looking at the results, The photons would act like waves and create many lines again.. I was thinking.. does this at all tie into the multi-verse theory? For instance before you look at something, it is in a state of infinite possibilities. But once you look, You see the one possibility "determined" for your universe. but simultaneously all the other multiverses are seeing their different "determined" possibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu

I didnt mention that in the summary.. but that is one of the most amazing parts about it.. I saw that they were able to record the slots that the photons would go through.. And no matter how long they waited (i think they only have done it up to 24 hours just to prove a point).. But everytime they would view the recording and check the results, it would be two lines, if they would delete the recording before looking at the results, The photons would act like waves and create many lines again.. I was thinking.. does this at all tie into the multi-verse theory? For instance before you look at something, it is in a state of infinite possibilities. But once you look, You see the one possibility "determined" for your universe. but simultaneously all the other multiverses are seeing their different "determined" possibility.

What you are referring to is one interpretation of the mathematics (i.e. each possible State splits off into it's own universe), and is one flavor of "Multiverse". However, it is probably not the same Multiverse interpretation that you commonly hear about. That Multiverse is a consequence of the current theory of Cosmic Inflation. Inflation essentially requires the universe to be expanding faster than the speed of light (possible, because it is space-time itself expanding). But, energy is not evenly distributed in the universe, so some low energy pockets will form (like our "universe"). However, since the rest of the Multiverse is expanding so quickly, no matter how many "universes" form, the Multiverse will continue to expand infinitely. So, you end up with an infinitely large "swiss cheese" looking model, where the holes are low-energy areas such as our universe, and the cheese is the high-energy infinitely expanding space-time. You can never see these other "holes", because they themselves are being pulled away from each other faster than the speed of light.

The consequence being that everything that can happen (including all variations of the fundamental physical constants) is happening, an infinite amount of times over. Some physicists actually find this a poor interpretation, because a theory that "predicts everything predicts nothing." Inflation may give way to a more accurate theory at some point. Time will tell.

That is my understanding anyway. I have a B.S. in Applied Physics, so I am certainly no PhD expert, but I keep up with these things the best that I can.
07-01-2011, 01:07 PM
Harry Evans

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Van

I think a more contemporary picture is every possible future exists, stemming from every possible past. Free will does not exist, but for another reason: the totality of our being is a sum of genetics and environmental stimuli. Free will is an illusion.

Interesting interpretation. So, then, since electrons travel so fast, are you saying we are, in a way, seeing possible futures, rather than the present?
07-01-2011, 01:17 PM
James Steele

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Van

I think a more contemporary picture is every possible future exists, stemming from every possible past. Free will does not exist, but for another reason: the totality of our being is a sum of genetics and environmental stimuli. Free will is an illusion.

Thanks for that, Agent Smith. Personally, I still believe that free will is not an illusion, otherwise what is the purpose of all the other possible pasts and futures? If free will did not exist, neither does choice, thus there would only ever be one outcome to each situation no matter how complex, removing the need for all the "other" outcomes needing to played out in alternative universes.
07-01-2011, 01:19 PM
Frank R.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor Culbertson

It is more mind blowing if you read it with an Alabama accent.

LMAO. Try it, it's hilarious.
07-01-2011, 01:23 PM
Tom Van

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Evans

Interesting interpretation. So, then, since electrons travel so fast, are you saying we are, in a way, seeing possible futures, rather than the present?

I was less referring to the speed of the electron (although what you are saying is another way to look it), and more to Quantum Field Theory that seems to require that all possible paths of a particle are taken simultaneously.
07-01-2011, 01:48 PM
Tom Van

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Steele

Thanks for that, Agent Smith. Personally, I still believe that free will is not an illusion, otherwise what is the purpose of all the other possible pasts and futures? If free will did not exist, neither does choice, thus there would only ever be one outcome to each situation no matter how complex, removing the need for all the "other" outcomes needing to played out in alternative universes.

LOL, Agent Smith. Great reference.

I would say that the mistake you are making is assuming "purpose" as an initial condition. You state "what is the purpose...?" and "removing the need...". I would propose that the universe does not require that you find its workings needed or purposeful.

Our models of many possible pasts and futures are simply mathematical interpretations of physical observations. Models that are developed through rationality and scientific experiment. I can see no rational nor scientific basis for a "free will", however soothing the concept may be to my ego.
07-01-2011, 01:52 PM
Tom Van

Also, "choice" is not necessary for multiple outcomes to exist. When you throw a die, there are six possible outcomes. The die never has to make a choice, yet the possibilities still exist.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page