The Stoppage hendo vs fedor

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Originally Posted by AndyK5

Henderson finished Fedor with massive punches to the back of the head which are illegal and highly dangerous. Henderson should have get a point deduction and even disqualification if Fedor could not continue. I am not a Fedor fanboy but these are the rules and they have to be enforced. I am seeing more and more, fighters finishing people off with punches to the back of the head.

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That's not quite right.


http://imgboot.com/images/kohler/dan...keforcebig.gif


It was an uppercut that clearly put Fedor out. The two punches behind the head were incidental. He was flurrying for the finish. Only two punches. That's not DQ territory. Eye gouging is illegal too, but it happens incidentally. But if you watch the gif, the moment Hendo notices his shots were illegal he switched to his left hand. Also if you watch, Herb had his eye on Fedor. Like I said, Fedor was rolling in slow mo. All that was gonna happen is a replay of what Hendo did to Babalu. Good stoppage.

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Originally Posted by Buffington

When a guy is getting hit illegally to the back of the head and neck the ref should step in but Fedor was not done. Herb did his job protecting Fedor but should have given Henderson a warning and continued match. Rematch

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Watch the gif. Fedor was out before the incidental punches. Also, there's a difference between intentional and incidental.

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Originally Posted by Enrique "Kiko"

After the slow motion replay, the uppercut the snuck through while Hendo was in the side ride position was solid. It was the right call with the stoppage. Sucks that Fedor is aging though. He's one of my favorite fighters of all time. He really should have been reigning in the UFC.

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He wouldn't have reigned in the UFC. He hasn't even reigned in SF.

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Originally Posted by Carson

When people say he should retire, I don't think it's from an anti-Fedor point of view. Even though Ali gets credit for being the greatest boxer he still stayed around far too long and took way more punches than he needed to. When people look back at the Ali story they pick thier own favorait fight to end the story cuz the real fights at the end are pretty sad and unnecessary. At some point everybody has to call it quits, maybe sooner is better than later.

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Great post. I hope Fedor doesn't hold on too long. Honestly, I feel like Fedor hasn't evolved to keep up with the current crop of fighter at the top tier. He's too wild (sloppy). After watching his hands, JDS would eat him up. Cain would eat him up. After seeing the fight with Bigfoot we know the bigger man can hold him down so Brock would eat him up. After seeing what Barnett and Reem did to Brett Rogers and comparing that to Fedor's fight, I'm pretty sure they would both beat Fedor. Fedor struggled to beat a bum in Rogers. He hasn't had a significant win since pride. He beat a washed up Sylvia and a glass jawed Arlovski. Fedor was great for his time. He's a legend forever. But he ain't getting a win against any top tiered dudes unless he evolves. Personally, I've lost all interest in Fedor.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

That's not quite right.


http://imgboot.com/images/kohler/dan...keforcebig.gif


But if you watch the gif, the moment Hendo notices his shots were illegal he switched to his left hand. Also if you watch, Herb had his eye on Fedor. Like I said, Fedor was rolling in slow mo. All that was gonna happen is a replay of what Hendo did to Babalu. Good stoppage.

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I actually agree it was good stoppage....but uhh no, he did not switch
to his left hand after the back of the head shots, he clearly swings with
his right hand two more times. They were clean after 2 though, and the
fight was over before the back of the head shots - that's the only reason
I see for him not getting warned.

My bad. I meant to say he switched to his left side (Fedor's open face). My point is, incidental shots happen all the time. Fights aren't stopped for warnings at that point. They're verbally warned as the fight goes on. But that wasn't Herb's concern. He just saw Fedor go flat. He's thinking, "fight might get stopped." He saw that Fedor wasn't going to defend the on coming damage and stopped it.

Hendo did nothing wrong. Herb did nothing wrong. Fedor made a tragic mistake.



BTW, props to Hendon on that reversal. That thing was sweet!

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

It was an uppercut that clearly put Fedor out. The two punches behind the head were incidental. He was flurrying for the finish. Only two punches. That's not DQ territory. Eye gouging is illegal too, but it happens incidentally. But if you watch the gif, the moment Hendo notices his shots were illegal he switched to his left hand. Also if you watch, Herb had his eye on Fedor. Like I said, Fedor was rolling in slow mo. All that was gonna happen is a replay of what Hendo did to Babalu. Good stoppage.




Watch the gif. Fedor was out before the incidental punches. Also, there's a difference between intentional and incidental.

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I disagree with you very much. I am not arguing if this was a good stoppage or a bad stoppage, I don't care if Hendo or Fedor won. My argument is that many fighters including Hendo finish their flurry with punches to the back of the head on a dazed opponent. This is done intentionaly like almost all of the knees to the groin thrown from the clinch. The fighters who execute these moves are fully aware that they are illegal but if they can get away with it they do it anyways. A hit to the back of the head ( the softest part of the skull) is so devastating that Matt Serra K.O.'ed GSP with one. I understand if you throw a hook from a standing position and it lands on the back of the head resulting in a K.O., but if you are standing on top of someone with them semi unconscious and you are pounding their head in, then you sir are at fault. I would want Hendo to get disqualified and fined by the athletic commission due to his actions AFTER he K.O.'ed Fedor. Knocking your opponent unconscious does not mean, you get to do whatever you want legal or illegal to them until the referee gets there.

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Originally Posted by AndyK5

I disagree with you very much. I am not arguing if this was a good stoppage or a bad stoppage, I don't care if Hendo or Fedor won. My argument is that many fighters including Hendo finish their flurry with punches to the back of the head on a dazed opponent. This is done intentionaly like almost all of the knees to the groin thrown from the clinch. The fighters who execute these moves are fully aware that they are illegal but if they can get away with it they do it anyways. A hit to the back of the head ( the softest part of the skull) is so devastating that Matt Serra K.O.'ed GSP with one. I understand if you throw a hook from a standing position and it lands on the back of the head resulting in a K.O., but if you are standing on top of someone with them semi unconscious and you are pounding their head in, then you sir are at fault. I would want Hendo to get disqualified and fined by the athletic commission due to his actions AFTER he K.O.'ed Fedor. Knocking your opponent unconscious does not mean, you get to do whatever you want legal or illegal to them until the referee gets there.

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Many fighters? Would you mind listing them?

Also, how many professional fights have you had? Personally, I've had 0. But the street fights that I've had taught me a valuable lesson. Things happen when adrenaline pumps. Hendo landed a legal punch when he uppercutted Fedor right on the chin. His instinct is to unload with his power hand. He landed 2 illegal incidental punches. The rest were legal. He finished the fight fair and square. I'm impressed that, even with adrenaline pumping, he still had the presence of mind to switch to the other side. But no fines are needed. No NC's need to be handed out. He won fair and square.

Also Serra didn't KO GSP with it. He stunned him with it. There is a difference. Same with Cain when he caught Brock while he was ducking. Back of the head punches happen incidentally.


As far as the groin shots, I have to ask again, how many pro fights have you had? Groin strikes can be incidental even in sparring. If they weren't, guys would never wear cups. The cup is there because it happens.

Listen, I'm not saying you're 100% wrong. I'm saying there's a high possibility you're wrong. I highly doubt that every fighter is out there planning on hitting the other guy in the back of the head or landing groin shots. But there's a possibility you're right. Maybe it was intentional. Maybe all groin strikes are intentional (like GSP kicking Hughes in the balls twice to set up the head kick ;) ).

I just think you're looking at things with your emotions invested instead of seeing things objectively. I see incidental punches. You see blatant foul. The ref sees incidental punches and a legit finish. :)

The shots weren't cheap....but they were illegal, incidental or not.

I highly doubt Hendo was out there thinking about punishing
the back of his head, but that doesn't mean it should be excused.

Position is so important in these fights - it may even be strategic
to turn the back of your head to prevent shots due to the fact
that they would land illegally. Incidental or not, when you step
into the cage with someone, you are both in agreement of the rules
and it's a matter of respect to not plow down on the back of some-
one's head.

The adrenaline excuse was used in the early early UFC's and guys
got away with shots after the bell and after the ref stepped in -
they got warned strongly. These guys are different now - they aren't
street brawlers with no restraint, they are highly trained athletes.
That, to me, means that their strikes are very intentional and they
should be held to a very high standard of competition. Just two cents here.

I think it was a good stoppage because Herb stepped in as soon as the uppercut KO'd Fedor. I believe Fedor was out, and that the following shots woke him back up.
This is the moment where Herb stepped in:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...rhenderson.jpg

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Originally Posted by Stephen G.

The shots weren't cheap....but they were illegal, incidental or not.

I highly doubt Hendo was out there thinking about punishing
the back of his head, but that doesn't mean it should be excused.

Position is so important in these fights - it may even be strategic
to turn the back of your head to prevent shots due to the fact
that they would land illegally. Incidental or not, when you step
into the cage with someone, you are both in agreement of the rules
and it's a matter of respect to not plow down on the back of some-
one's head.

The adrenaline excuse was used in the early early UFC's and guys
got away with shots after the bell and after the ref stepped in -
they got warned strongly. These guys are different now - they aren't
street brawlers with no restraint, they are highly trained athletes.
That, to me, means that their strikes are very intentional and they
should be held to a very high standard of competition. Just two cents here.

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The shots are illegal. There is no excuse. They clearly happened. But there's a difference between an excuse and a reason. An excuse wipes the error away. A reason is simply an explanation.

I have yet to see any fighter not land an incidental back of the head punch or two. It happens. Same with groin strikes. Same with headbutts. Same with eye pokes. Everyone lands them. Guys make mistakes and things happen. I'm sure if Herb felt they were intentional he'd have called for a DQ like when Mazzagatti had Jon Jones DQ'd. Like I said, if Hendo really wanted to be dirty, he'd keep going at the back of the head, but he switched to the other side when he noticed he hit the back of the head. The first one looked like he was aiming for the side of the head and he was 80% there, the second one looked aimed for the side but landed on the back as Fedor's head turned, then he switched sides. It doesn't take away that they happened. But it explains WHY they happened. It also paints a clearer picture of intent. As I said, it's not something that needs athletic commission intervention. Otherwise every groin shot and eye poke needs to get overturned.