Is Frank "The Man" James good or bad for 10th Planet??

This is getting more and more confusing..i don know what to think anymore

This seems pretty much the norm. Guy gets himself some backlash for being an ass. People gang up and show he is not only an ass but a liar. Guy claims he is misunderstood and that he was just angry, but its too late. Guy realizes he has been caught and instead of humbling himself he tucks dick and ends up leaving the forum all together. Par for the course.

it was an honorary belt as I was one of two instructors at the school at the time of affiliation. I left for other circumstances before it became official at review. I stated from the beginning that I didnt feel qualified to wear it at the time I was told to or after the fact, I'll admit that I wanted to believe it but deep down I didnt and that was more evident when I became a member on here and saw that I should be honest with myself and everyone, thus why I changed it. I have about 7 years seven years experience grappling, first way back in the mid nineties when I took trad jj for just shy of 3 years. and the time that I was at abismma which is a nova uniao affiliate where I was teaching mma (grappling included) for over a year and a half. you make the call, I was there and have fighters who trained with me who were there when all of this transpired long before jake ever moved to goldsboro. I do not have credentials proving it but My fiance and I had dinner with Neale where she verified what I am saying in conversations with Neale, and at that time, I told neale that I wanted to work as hard as ever to be a tpjj student and for him "not" to cut me any corners as I want to be the best that I could be. I expressed this to Kevin Green also and had planned on having him evaluate me for my blue when he came down next month. Ask them, but Im pretty sure they are staying away from this as much as possible so not to damage their credibility. In fact, I have asked them to do so. I would never want to hurt anyone or the reputation of tpjj, as why I'm leaving and choosing to do so. I am deeply sorry for any confusion, and believe me, the headache that all of this seem to have caused everyone. I again, will say that I was wrong in posting what I said with the name calling, it was wrong, and childlish on my part. I am a hot head at times when I feel attacked, a fault all my doing.

Honorary belt? :/ Dude, you need to just come clean. Your fiancé can't vouch for your credentials...unless she's a BJJ black belt?

In my opinion, you seem like you love the system, but you don't get anywhere with lying. You've gotta work your way to the top no matter who you are. Any other rank in Japanese JJ, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Karate, they don't matter. They are great to have, sure, but you can't transfer them over to 10th Planet. You gotta work as hard as Sean Bollinger, as hard as Denny Prokopos, to earn your rank.

Anything that went before just forget about it. Don't big yourself up. Don't say you're better than anyone. PROVE it. I got my blue belt by going to LA and tapping blue belts, not by another rank saying I should be one.

A fresh start is necessary for you. Your relevant grappling experience starts the day you set foot in a BJJ school, not a traditional JJ school

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Originally Posted by Jeff Vale

This seems pretty much the norm. Guy gets himself some backlash for being an ass. People gang up and show he is not only an ass but a liar. Guy claims he is misunderstood and that he was just angry, but its too late. Guy realizes he has been caught and instead of humbling himself he tucks dick and ends up leaving the forum all together. Par for the course.

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this is exactly what Neale and Kevin warned me about forums. here I have done everything to make everything crystal fucking clear as to any misrepresentation on my part and tried to do as so many of you have wished me to do or I should say, have done to me which is ban me from the forum and any affiliation with tpjj. I have agreed that because so many of you feel so strongly about it, that I would walk away as not to continue creating havoc for its members. And yet through it all, this one person right here who was so very adament about banning me is the very first to criticize me for voluntarily leaving... WTF? what would you prefer Jeff that I do. I'll discount the emails that I have gotten from others this am on fb and my hotmail, the phone calls from my students who are watching this and cant believe how people who have never met me can hate so much, And the few on here who, in the face of being rejected themselves, have said give me another chance, I'll ignore everyone of them and let you make the decision. Just tell me what it is that you would like to see happen to me, since going away isnt good enough for you. and for the record, you dont know me at all, but are choosing to make assumptions based off statements that I have made in the past that you dont agree with and others who also know even less than you about me as a person. I'm so sorry for you most of all that you can't put aside your confused anger and distain for me to see that this has been very hard for me and probably one of the saddest events in my life, as one of the best days was on my birthday back in April, when for my present, My fiance knowing how much I like tpjj, paid for me to go to delaware for Eddies seminar and meet him. It was has I have stated, a life changing day where I had the pleasure of meeting some of the absolute best people on earth. I knew from that point on that this is what I wanted to do and be completely devoted to it. I failed on some great level evidently for people who have never laid eyes upon me or spoken with me outside of this forum to dislike me sooo much and be so outspoken about it. I have done all I could to correct any errors, to apologize to those I have offended, and its still not enough for you, If you send me your address, I'll cut off a finger and mail it to you so that you can have a true piece of me as a momento of all of this and how you hand your hand in it.

I hope that everyone can see by Jeff's posting that sometimes it doesnt matter what you do, its never enough, and I am well aware of the fact and think that is why it is best that I leave.

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Originally Posted by Jay JC Chow

Honorary belt? :/ Dude, you need to just come clean. Your fiancé can't vouch for your credentials...unless she's a BJJ black belt?

In my opinion, you seem like you love the system, but you don't get anywhere with lying. You've gotta work your way to the top no matter who you are. Any other rank in Japanese JJ, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Karate, they don't matter. They are great to have, sure, but you can't transfer them over to 10th Planet. You gotta work as hard as Sean Bollinger, as hard as Denny Prokopos, to earn your rank.

Anything that went before just forget about it. Don't big yourself up. Don't say you're better than anyone. PROVE it. I got my blue belt by going to LA and tapping blue belts, not by another rank saying I should be one.

A fresh start is necessary for you. Your relevant grappling experience starts the day you set foot in a BJJ school, not a traditional JJ school

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I have come clean and Jay, you and were part of the reason this got blown out of proportion, just so you know, my fiance ates that I train, because she feels that I spend less time with her, but she was there when all of these things took place and I think that I earned the belt that I now claim as a beginner in tpjj which is white. Ive come right out and admitted to everyone that once I joined this forum and really started to get involved with it, I saw exactly what you said to be the truth and made every correction to clear that up. I'm not going to say Ive never trained before now because that would be a lie, and if you cant see that by Jason corriera statement that I'm as genuine as I can be when I teach and the love I have for this, then I am sorry that I made you think otherwise. I am sorry to you for the name calling, sincerely, it was childish on my part and I should not have done it.

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Originally Posted by frank-theman-james

I have come clean and Jay, you and were part of the reason this got blown out of proportion, just so you know, my fiance ates that I train, because she feels that I spend less time with her, but she was there when all of these things took place and I think that I earned the belt that I now claim as a beginner in tpjj which is white. Ive come right out and admitted to everyone that once I joined this forum and really started to get involved with it, I saw exactly what you said to be the truth and made every correction to clear that up. I'm not going to say Ive never trained before now because that would be a lie, and if you cant see that by Jason corriera statement that I'm as genuine as I can be when I teach and the love I have for this, then I am sorry that I made you think otherwise. I am sorry to you for the name calling, sincerely, it was childish on my part and I should not have done it.

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you and I is what I meant to say, that our arguing back and forth blew this up, did not mean to imply you were at fault solely, i missed a key.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Vale

This seems pretty much the norm. Guy gets himself some backlash for being an ass. People gang up and show he is not only an ass but a liar. Guy claims he is misunderstood and that he was just angry, but its too late. Guy realizes he has been caught and instead of humbling himself he tucks dick and ends up leaving the forum all together. Par for the course.

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It seems like a few phone calls between black belts can straighten this issue out. The BJJ community is pretty tight and that should sort out many of these disputes.

Is 10thPJJ becoming the new Bullshido?

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Originally Posted by djradoff

First it was hearsay and now it's fairly accurate? Make up your mind flip flopper. You are part of the reason people have a low opinion of defense attorneys and lawyers in general.

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Lol clearly you don't know what hearsay means. Just because what he said is hearsay doesn't mean it can't be accurate. It means it's unfair to just take it at face value. My personal opinion believing it to be accurate doesn't change the fact that it is hearsay. And I'm well aware of the lawyer's stigma thank you very much.

This guy is TERRIBLE for 10th Planet.

There is so much I want to say, but my time is precious and this guy is toxic, so I will keep my post short.

If Frank were a teenager, I would write this off as a person who is brash in youth, or a kid who doesn't have a lot of worldly experience. Unfortunately, Frank is a grown man, so I have zero tolerance for it.

I don't know about you, but in my experience, it is unheard of in any academy for a person to speak the way Frank did to the top guys of the association and get away with it. Making demands to the head instructor about belt promotions? That is laughable. In any school that I have been to, or trained in, this dude would immediately be given his money back, his contract would be torn up in front of him, his association with the academy would be permanently terminated, and he would be laughed out the front door. And that is if he was lucky enough not to also get his ass kicked.

The fact that Eddie is even asking us for our opinions shows how lucky we all are to have him as our Mestre.

BTW...this is not the first time that this guy has gotten on this forum and been completely out of line. See this thread for example.

Frank if you are reading this, as a 10th Planet student, I take personal offense for the way you have spoken to Eddie and Scott.

Scott has payed serious dues and in the very least deserves your respect as a martial artist. He is a black belt in BJJ, a feat that most people will never reach, and to get there he has put more on the line than most ever will.

Secondly, not only is Eddie a BJJ LEGEND, but he is the most generous guy in the game and doesn't deserve to have you, or anyone preaching to him, speaking to him with any ill intent, or demanding anything of him. Your logic is horribly flawed and in my opinion you are bad for this, or any tribe.

I am just glad the people teaching me don't have "Honorary Rankings". I am glad my Dr. wasn't Honorarily given his medical degree. I am glad Pilots can't fly with an Honorary pilot's license. I think Elvis Presley was an Honorary Black Belt.

And well stated Jason.

Thank You, Goodnight.

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Originally Posted by Jason Eisner

This guy is TERRIBLE for 10th Planet.

There is so much I want to say, but my time is precious and this guy is toxic, so I will keep my post short.

If Frank were a teenager, I would write this off as a person who is brash in youth, or a kid who doesn't have a lot of worldly experience. Unfortunately, Frank is a grown man, so I have zero tolerance for it.

I don't know about you, but in my experience, it is unheard of in any academy for a person to speak the way Frank did to the top guys of the association and get away with it. Making demands to the head instructor about belt promotions? That is laughable. In any school that I have been to, or trained in, this dude would immediately be given his money back, his contract would be torn up in front of him, his association with the academy would be permanently terminated, and he would be laughed out the front door. And that is if he was lucky enough not to also get his ass kicked.

The fact that Eddie is even asking us for our opinions shows how lucky we all are to have him as our Mestre.

BTW...this is not the first time that this guy has gotten on this forum and been completely out of line. See this thread for example.

Frank if you are reading this, as a 10th Planet student, I take personal offense for the way you have spoken to Eddie and Scott.

Scott has payed serious dues and in the very least deserves your respect as a martial artist. He is a black belt in BJJ, a feat that most people will never reach, and to get there he has put more on the line than most ever will.

Secondly, not only is Eddie a BJJ LEGEND, but he is the most generous guy in the game and doesn't deserve to have you, or anyone preaching to him, speaking to him with any ill intent, or demanding anything of him. Your logic is horribly flawed and in my opinion you are bad for this, or any tribe.

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Amen Jason!!

i should change my rank to black belt, maybe then eddie will write a post about me :D
i want the publicity!!!!!

Regarding the Brown belt thread I firmly believe that it is not what you say it is 'HOW' you say it. Insulting people with petty names and saying things like 'Fuck you' in a rather agressive tone is not only uncalled for but very undignified for a grown man with 20+ years of Martial arts. I believe you should treat others how you want to be treated.

Cant we all just get along? Thats my 2 cents

http://mises.org/images4/TwoCents.png

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Originally Posted by Chris Urbanski

I am just glad the people teaching me don't have "Honorary Rankings". I am glad my Dr. wasn't Honorarily given his medical degree. I am glad Pilots can't fly with an Honorary pilot's license. I think Elvis Presley was an Honorary Black Belt.

And well stated Jason.

Thank You, Goodnight.

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hmm thats a great point ,....."homorary rankings" we see this in some schools (NOT 10th p) , where students PAY for special techniques and get ranked ,.etc. they have to buy themself favortism , its a shame too cause that means their senseis ,masters , grandmasters ,sifu or rev don't care if they are any good or not just so they get the money

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

I don't think he's bad, misguided perhaps.

I don't agree with his questioning of Eddie's ranking guidelines at all, its wasn't his place to do so. No one is forcing anyone to train 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu and work towards rank, its a choice. If its something you want bad enough you'll make sacrifices to obtain it.

The name calling wasn't called for and doesn't following the positive attitude that the 10th Planet community strives for. However I feel it was reactionary on Frank's part and he made a poor choice in how he responded to the criticism. We've all said stupid shit in the past, hopefully he'll learn from it, use it as a learning experience to grow is a more positive direction.

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I stand corrected. "Misguided" would imply Frank lacked direction. Clearly that is not the case. I wasn't aware of the other thread/facebook drama, and thought this to be a one time incident, but his behaviors indicate otherwise. 10th Planet doesn't need representatives that can't control their mouth or behaviors in an attempt to be a standard bearer of the system.

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Originally Posted by Jake Whitfield

hi, i have never posted on here but this time i feel the need to chime in. let me start off by introducing myself. my name is jake whitfield. i am a brown belt under royce gracie and a professional mma fighter (my record: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/f/DA...les-Whitfield/ ). i also own triangle jiu-jitsu academy here in north carolina (www.trianglejj.com). i know frank personally and feel like i have something to add.
first of all, let me start by saying some of the things that frank is going to say about me. first, he is going to say that i'm a punk kid. well i really have no way to argue that since it is his opinion. second, he's going to point that i have been very critical of eddie and 10th planet. this is absolutely true. i am a traditional gracie jiu-jitsu teacher and i'm proud of it. i have been highly critical of how eddie portrays his style and some of the things he teaches and i will continue to be.
i moved to goldsboro, nc in may of 2008 and my first encounter with frank was about a week before i fought tim mannon. i was working the bag at my gym and this little car pulls out. out of the car steps this large guy in an even larger tapout shirt. so i start to talk to him. he tells me that he is frank james and that he used to teach at the other mma gym in town. he tells me that he was given a purple belt by the head of nova uniao in north carolina to which i replied "oh you mean jeremy owens from evolution? yeah jeremy is a really good friend of mine." then frank changed his story and said that he wasnt actually given a belt by jeremy but that jeremy said that he was a purple belt level. next he tried to tell me that he was really good friends with charuto and i replied "oh yeah? thats cool. i trained with charuto last week." now he starts backpedaling and trying to tell me about his awesome stand up background and how he had taken one of his students down to a kickboxing gym in wilmington to be evaluated. and i said "oh you mean john maynard at champion kickboxing? yeah hes the one who gave me my black belt in kickboxing". now frank didnt know what to say so he tells me (direct quote) "well small joint manipulations are really my forte." at which point i informed him that i had to get back to training.
over the next few months, frank would pop into the gym occasionally and hang out and try to tell me more bullshit. i was always polite to him and would always ask if he wanted to roll but he would always have a reason why he couldnt. then he finally scheduled a private with me in january of 2009. he asked me some fairly ridiculous questions then we rolled. we rolled about five minutes and he tapped about six times. only one of those times was a legitimate submission. the other times was "oh man i cant breath, get off me". then he offered to help me with my stand up and i said "sure wanna spar?" so we put on some gloves. most of the stand up training was me stalking him around the mat and him running away. finally he stepped in and hit me with one jab. it landed solid but did nothing. frank however reacted like he had just killed me "oh my god man are you ok?" i just looked at him and was like "yeah it was just a jab dude keep going." finally he stopped running and i landed a few combinations and he said he didnt want to spar anymore. i remember that day very well because it was the day that grandmaster helio passed away. i got done training with frank and got a text saying that he had passed and all i could think was "what a disgrace! grandmaster helio passes and i'm hear training with this guy."
frank didnt come back into the gym for awhile after that. maybe six months later he showed up again. i was having royce at my place for a seminar and had sent out a mass text to everyone in my phone about it. so frank shows up... wearing a BLACK BELT! lol frank does the whole seminar and at the end of the seminar when royce is about to do evaluations he says "ok, everyone with more than a years experience on this side. everyone with less than a year on the other side." and frank mr black belt went over to the side with less than a years experience! haha
once again, i didnt hear anything from him for a long time. then about six months ago, one of my students posted a video on facebook on how to counter the rubber guard. frank left a rather rude reply saying that my student didnt know what he was talking about. one of my other students posted a response with two videos showing my guy using the exact countrer in competition. at which point frank said something about how it would never work against someone that really knew 10th planet jiu-jitsu. now i had enough so i replied and said that frank james is a phony. not only does he have no business being an mma coach but he certainly has no business criticizing my student who has competed many times and done very well. this set frank off and frank started attacking me and calling me names so i offered for frank to come by the gym and roll. he said he didnt want to roll, he wanted to fight. so i offered for him to come by the gym and we could put some gloves on. he told me that he didnt want to do mma because mma was for pussies that needed to hide behind the rules. he wanted to fight me in the street and he was going to pull my eyes out and stomp on my head and all this stuff. i posted one more time pointing out that at no time did i ever threaten this man. all i ever did was offer for him to come by the gym and train. i didnt respond for probably 70 more comments. when i did it was to copy and paste a message from jon helton. frank even went so far as to tell a black belt, a black belt that placed third at the pan ams, that he didnt know anything about jiu-jitsu. for the next month everywhere i went, people were asking me what was wrong with that psycho.
finally a few weeks ago i saw frank at walmart. i simply went about my business but i did keep my eyes open. frank is well known around here for sucker punching people. i have many students who are law enforcement officers and they all talked about how many times frank has been arrested. there is even a law in a local county for "habitual misdemeanor assault" that was created specifically for frank. eventually frank ended up in line behind me. as he walked up, i turned to face him so he could see that i knew he was there. our conversation went like this:
frank: hey man hows it going?
me: fine
frank: when are you fighting again?
me: march or april, its up to the promoter
frank: oh man thats cool! i'll have to make sure i'm there...long pause... i'm having a seminar at my gym
me: yeah with the guy from delaware
frank: yeah! want me to drop some fliers off at the gym
me: nope, its not my thing
frank: yeah i know but it never hurts to broaden your horizons
me: yeah but that stuff doesnt interest me. obviously eddie has proven that HE can make it work at a high level, but i dont really care for most of it.
frank: yeah theres a lot of stuff i dont like to with the names and everything
at which point, i took my bags and walked away. then i hear how hes telling people on here that i was scared and how there was almost a show at walmart. you folks dont know me, but i can promise you this: the only thing about frank that scares me is his punch from behind. frank james is a bully and bullies are no threat to anyone that will stand up to them.
eddie, like i said in the beginning, i have been vocal in my dislike for a lot of the stuff that you do and say. you are an authority with a unique amount of influence in the bjj/mma community and i dont always agree with how you use it. personally, i play rubber guard quite a bit and the twister back take has become one of my favorite ways to get to the back but the way you present the sport bothers me. i have respect for you as a jiu-jitsu practitioner. to beat royler, you have to be pretty freaking good no matter what the circumstances. but i also have to say that after reading this thread i do also have more respect for you as a person. i'm glad to see you taking steps to protect your name and your students from someone like this. i would love a chance to talk with you one on one about some of my feelings, but this is all i have to say about this matter. thanks.

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http://thejuiceboxx.files.wordpress....if?w=200&h=136

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Originally Posted by Mike Noronowicz

hmm thats a great point ,....."homorary rankings" we see this in some schools (NOT 10th p) , where students PAY for special techniques and get ranked ,.etc. they have to buy themself favortism , its a shame too cause that means their senseis ,masters , grandmasters ,sifu or rev don't care if they are any good or not just so they get the money

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Lol @ "homorary"

Frank, if you don't get banned, Try Yoga, Weed, & stop wearing those damn ''Tapout'' Shirt's. they've become synonomous with MMA dousche bag fans. Unfortunately

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

I stand corrected. "Misguided" would imply Frank lacked direction. Clearly that is not the case. I wasn't aware of the other thread/facebook drama, and thought this to be a one time incident, but his behaviors indicate otherwise. 10th Planet doesn't need representatives that can't control their mouth or behaviors in an attempt to be a standard bearer of the system.

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+1

If you were attacked, then it can be understandable if you lose composure, but please don't start or go looking for trouble.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Lol @ "homorary"

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oops my spelling , my eyes are seeing foggy i got the flu today sorry

Regading Honorary rank, BJJ doesnt have that. He said Charuto gave him an "honorary" purple belt? Has anyone, here ever heard of such a thing? Before he said he was given a purple belt by charuto, now he says it was honorary with a final assessment on the way......IME when a BJJ teacher/instructor gives a belt, that is it, it is your rank, open and shut.

Wow. Sounds like dude dug his own grave. I'm just gonna shut the f*ck up and keep busting my ass on the mat. The Jiu Jitsu world is way too small to make false claims, especially here on Nibiru. I've had the pleasure of rolling with some of you and it's been an honor. I've got too much respect for the people here on the forum to bash or criticize anyone. Maestro, it's your call what to do about the situation. You have our support.

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Originally Posted by frank-theman-james

I just got home and found this and would like to reply and hope it can clear up some things. First of all, I wasn't trying to say eddie was not doing his part as the master of this system. I was merely giving, and I can see how it could be perceived as bad looking back, a shout out for kevin and neale, two instructors who I think exemplify tpjj. Secondly, when I got pressed on the forum, I felt insulted, so I responded in kind, and if you read the post, the thread addressed to jay chow was to show him how I felt insulted, and Immediately posted again to the contrary and let him know that was all I was trying to do and that I didn't mean it. he seemed to understand and said no problem. third, as far as "theman" goes in my name, I explained that as my name is very plain and common, and in the past, sighing up for email and websites was always hard to get sing on, A friend, as a joke meant to bust my balls, typed it in, and it went through, so I've used ever since, kinda to bust his balls back, like haha jokes on you. And yes, it sounds cocky, but its easy to remember and Its always available, so I've always used it. I dont believe for a minute that I'm the baddest guy in the world, but just a guy that loves martial arts, to be honest, tpjj more than all the rest at this time. I'm very passionate about it, and if thats bad, then Im bad. will I make mistakes, sure. Ive fought for things my whole life being that I grew up poor, but it doesnt make it right, just habit. I just spent three hours teaching my students tpjj techniques trying to learn all I can and better myself to it in hopes that one day I would be an affiliate, but if Eddie thinks that I am bad for tpjj and that my heart isnt devoted to it 100%, then I would rather not be involved and will gladly step away, rather than hurt or tarnish its image. Yes, I believe in standing up for what I believe and when we do that, someone will always disagree, thats life. I never meant anything bad towards anyone on here, but yea, I have had some heated debates with some, but I have always tried to give good advice to help others when they had questions, I have always supported this system 100%. And for those of you who seen where I challenged a gracie brown belt, yea I did, because he told lies at the very beginning of the facebook thread about me and my fiance on things that he had no idea of what he was talking about, but since all of that, he and I have talked at walmart, where I invited him to a seminar that I was doing with kevin green, no problem. I thought very highly of him before the fb issue and referred a lot of people to him for bjj as I believed that he was and is one of the best guys in eastern nc for it. When he said what he said, I was upset and overreacted, and for which was reprimanded by Jon helton, who helped me see my mistake and showed me a different path that I could of taken, also Neale Hoerle expressed his concerns and also helped me understand the ramifications for it. I've tried exhaustedly all I can, with limited resources to train with others in this system, and If their opinion counts, I think that they know my background and understand my passion, and my faults. But never let it be said that I don't want what is best for tpjj, and if that includes excluding me, I will understand and walk away.

To Eddie, sorry for suggesting in anyway that I knew more than you, I never meant to, but I can see reading back now, how it could be perceived as such. I really only meant it as a compliment to Kevin and some of his students that I have had the pleasure of meeting and working with. To jay chow, I explained the name calling to you and thought we understood each other, if not, I'm sorry again and it was just meant to get a reaction out of you which I did, and much the way that I felt a lot of others were doing to me at the same time. I've discussed it with Einstein via email and thought he better understood my position with him and thought we were good also, If not, let me say now, that while I did not agree with his original statement, I have the upmost respect for him as a person, and a bb.

The truth of it guys, if all of you had the pleasure of meeting me in person, I'm sure that you would see that I am just a guy that loves this stuff and I am willing to share anything I know with anybody, but usually end up walking away feeling I learned way more from you all. Sorry to everyone that all this came about. Whatever you all decide I will honor.

Frank James

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i dont rep 10p, i havnt even been training a yr, and i train at an mma gym not a bjj gym. so by saying this i really dont mean to step on anyones toes, or make any calls i should. however, i research ALOT (for what its worth) and i believe in 10p to the death my 2 cents, definetely let him stay.any guy who reads this kind of criticism on himself and still acts the way he did, props to that.

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Originally Posted by stlnl

Regading Honorary rank, BJJ doesnt have that.

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Actually it does. There are a few old school masters that went from 1st degree to 8th degree overnight. And then there's Rashad Evans. :-)

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Originally Posted by chris herzog

http://thejuiceboxx.files.wordpress....if?w=200&h=136

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wtf!? Lmfao!

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Originally Posted by Ian "ifreez" Freemantle

And then there's Rashad Evans. :-)

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LMFAO! good one!

Is there any video of Frank using the system ?

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Originally Posted by Ian "ifreez" Freemantle

Actually it does. There are a few old school masters that went from 1st degree to 8th degree overnight. And then there's Rashad Evans. :-)

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But can you name some purple belt ranks? Also, Rashad isnt honorary. The guy who gave it to him said he was awarding him a no gi Black belt. Pretty sure the guys who went from 1st degree up, also meant it, meaning it was not "honorary"

Honorary, means you know a bit about the subject, but are not held to the standard of performance. Regarding Rashad, guys like Rhadi Ferguson and other Black belts say he is a black belt, so take no offense if I am willing to take the guy's opinion who awarded Rashad his no-gi Black as well as Rhadi's over yours in implying Rashad cant grapple at a black belt level.

Im pretty sure Rashad has a black belt top game no doubt in my mind. His bottom game is the part that i would question more so.

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Originally Posted by Dartangan Jackson

Im pretty sure Rashad has a black belt top game no doubt in my mind. His bottom game is the part that i would question more so.

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Thing is, the guy has been training as a full time pro how long now? 5-6 years? I dont know what level he started at (meaning when we first saw him on TV) but To think he never works a bottom game, or to thing a full time pro who can train all the time doesnt have a game developed....well I would guess he has a decent bottom game. However, often with competition guys, some never develop a "rounded" game. I remember Wallid Ismael back in his days of tournament dominance. His guard was never a weapon, and he never used it as such in BJJ comp, he got on top, and ravaged guys guards and had a crazy top game. But just because his top game was so much obviously better than his form/function bottom game, would you say he isnt a black belt? I wouldnt.

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Originally Posted by stlnl

But can you name some purple belt ranks? Also, Rashad isnt honorary. The guy who gave it to him said he was awarding him a no gi Black belt. Pretty sure the guys who went from 1st degree up, also meant it, meaning it was not "honorary"

Honorary, means you know a bit about the subject, but are not held to the standard of performance. Regarding Rashad, guys like Rhadi Ferguson and other Black belts say he is a black belt, so take no offense if I am willing to take the guy's opinion who awarded Rashad his no-gi Black as well as Rhadi's over yours in implying Rashad cant grapple at a black belt level.

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Dude, Rashad went from white to black. To me that's honorary. Furthermore, Honorary does not necessarily mean you're held to a lessor standard. In academia, if you've written umpteen books on a subject and are a leader in you'd field, even more influential than others with actual PhDs in said field, but never got a PhD yourself, they sometimes just give you an honorary degree.

Especially in music and film faculties. They don't give honorary degrees to chumps. They have those ceromonies for the badasses that never got a degree, who would put anyone with a degree to shame. And they call it an honorary degree.

I was always told by instructors that every part of your game has to be at the level of your belt. If you have a purple belt top but a white belt level of escapes and defense then you're a white belt. Alot of people give out belts on attendance and "dedication" to the school aka paying your gym dues.

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Originally Posted by Ian "ifreez" Freemantle

Dude, Rashad went from white to black. To me that's honorary. Furthermore, Honorary does not necessarily mean you're held to a lessor standard. In academia, if you've written umpteen books on a subject and are a leader in you'd field, even more influential than others with actual PhDs in said field, but never got a PhD yourself, they sometimes just give you an honorary degree.

Especially in music and film faculties. They don't give honorary degrees to chumps. They have those ceromonies for the badasses that never got a degree, who would put anyone with a degree to shame. And they call it an honorary degree.

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Seems to me though, famous people are the ones who always get honorary degrees. Are you saying Rashad has never trained any BJJ tech?

Think of honorary as a non-traditional path.

People that join indigenousness tribes and then come back with boatloads of previously unobtainable information could get honorary degrees in anthropology or English if they write about their experience. Would you say these guys have no anthropology technique? No. They just didn't go to an Anthropology Academy, they went out into the Anthropology World, and are thus rewarded prescriptively after the fact.

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Originally Posted by Jared Gammel

Think of honorary as a non-traditional path.

People that join indigenousness tribes and then come back with boatloads of previously unobtainable information could get honorary degrees in anthropology or English if they write about their experience. Would you say these guys have no anthropology technique? No. They just didn't go to an Anthropology Academy, they went out into the Anthropology World, and are thus rewarded prescriptively after the fact.

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Like I said, always seemed only famous people got them. But I have no idea what reqs from large universities are, I have a feeling the reqs are probably quite varied. In light of this, do we think the fellow in question did in fact get an honorary purple belt then?

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Originally Posted by stlnl

In light of this, do we think the fellow in question did in fact get an honorary purple belt then?

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thread is definitely tl;dr

lol yea i think Eddie wants us to stay focused on the question he asked...not that im agaisnt a good ole how legit is evans and his bjj

I couldnt give an answer to the thread without knowing if the fellow in question did, or did not get a purple belt from Charuto, since he said he did get one. But the focus did shift all over the place with the word honorary.