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Gracie was Jiu Jitsu Bruce was MMA, Bruce would win
DW Forum - Is there a particular person whose insight and understanding of combat you admire more than others? If so, I hope you'll take the time to give an example.
Joe Lewis - I do not admire any one person. I see myself in many other fighters and trainers. I like the explosiveness of Jack Dempsey, (25 first-round knockouts--a record today). The elusiveness of Ali and the power of Joe Louis and Marciano. Few guys can knock you out with just one punch in the very last round like those two.Eddie Futch had a brilliant trainer's mind, and others like Ray Robinson could put it all together, speed, power, timing, brains, stamina, longevity, adaptability, etc. Even I had it all once but in my heart, I never cared about who was king of the hill.
DW Forum - Could you answer me on one simple question concerning JKD? What exactly was Bruce teaching? I mean did he have specific way of treining his students or maybe he just said "well, we're gonna learn this from wing chun, that from boxing and those kicks from taekwondo"?Were there any specifics only for jeet kune do?So, have you sparred with Bruce Lee (because I've heard many versions of your fighting-relation ship with him).
Joe Lewis - Bruce and I would only do drills related to combat. We did not give them names, such as Wing Chun etc. If it worked we used it and I have always trained that way. I do not care about names or styles, that is all garbage---and I mean garbage. Either your kick or choke worked or it didn't: the style did not carry any super magic or extra powers.
DW Forum - I read a story about Bruce going over to your house and not being impressed with the size of your heavy bag and called it a girls bag, and I think he asked Herb Jackson was it, to make him a man sized man. It weighed 700lbs and if I remember the story correctly you along with Bob Wall set it up for him and then hid in a bush. Bruce kicked it and landed in a heap. I hope I've got this all right or else I'll look like a bit of a dip Anyway can you remember this day and what did you think when he kicked the bag and landed on the floor. Did he ever move the big bag at all, what was his sidekick power like on the bag?
Joe Lewis - I do not remember much about that 700 pound bag. It sounds like one of those old rumors. Bruce had a good fast side kick but if you watch some of those old atapes, you can tell he always lunged from too great a distance. This makes the bag move but throws your timing way off. You need to be close to the tirget when you fire so your reaction time and your response time are quick, not just one. Timeing speed is both.You should never work with a bag weighing more than l00 pounds, and I mean never. If anyone tells you different, they do not know what they are talking about. Bannana bags are different for the low cut kicks.
DW Forum - Lately I've heard things like "Bruce Lee could hit seven times in a second"...I personally believe it is crap. I mean how could anybody test speed of punches without todays fast-cameras and all that stuff?I'm told my wing chun instructor punches seven hits on a second (in the air of course).Have you heard of it? I guess it's a proof of a quickness....maybe Bruce talked about it?
Joe Lewis - Please, drop all the stuff you've heard. Martial arts is full of nonsense. Only believe what you have seen or can prove. Show me more than three real punches in a second and I will kiss your butt. ON film, Ali's jab took 7 frames to complete, and Sugar Ray's took 9 frames. A second of film takes 24 frames. Simple math guys. Three real punches per second and that is it. Less talk and more proof. Let's get in the ring and show off some of these secrets. They pay millions of dollars. That beats eating rice all your life and teaching martial arts forever anytime?
DW Forum - Can you tell a bit us of your training days with Bruce Lee & Bob Wall? How many training sessions in total did you have with Bruce & over that period of time? What is your opinion of Bruce as a fighter? Would he have been able to go 10 or 12 rounds with someone such as yourself or Chuck Norris? It is rumoured that Bruce Lee & Chuck Norris had a sparing session in that Chuck Norris was left red-faced. I assume this to mean he lost and was embarassed. Do you know ot have you anything about this ? Is there any truth in it. Can you tell us about the incident where Bruce kept teasing you about kicking a girl sized bag (Becuase you kept busting 100lb bags with your kicks). And you guys (Bob wall etc) made him a man sized bag (300lb). Did you ever meet or have a chance to talk to Jim Kelly ?
Joe Lewis - I learn fast. I made black belt in one year in Okinawa in three different styles. I am a fast learning. I can get all your stuff in a matter of weeks, and I mean anybody who can fight. I worked with Bruce less than two years before we grew apart. We used to work together for 6 to 8 hours at a time. I would be at his house at one in the afternoon, and not leave until maybe ten that night. Is that one lesson? Bruce was not a fighter. He was an actor and a teacher. He was a great teacher.
DW Forum - There is a fellow from India who always calls Bruce Lee `Master Lee',and capitalizes any words referring to `Him'.He has also put some rather unflattering remarks on his Indian fan club website about you by taking quotes of yours out of context and saying that you are essential insulting `Master Lee'. Can you tell us how Bruce Lee would respond and treat somebody who would call him `Master Lee' outside a formal class setting?Did you or Chuck or Mike Stone ever have to call him sifu or such?Or did Lee tell you to call him by his name?
Joe Lewis - Bruce Lee always called me "Joe," and I always called him, "Bruce." Bruce told me he was not a master but rather a student master. He called himself this because he felt he was always still learning. He joked about some who called him "sifu." As far as what some of these uninformed people from foreign websites say about me or Bruce, I wish they would exercise better judgment. You never talk about a person unless you have interviewed him, worked with him, or observed him training. Most people who talk about Bruce and myself have never met either of us, interviewed either of us, or witnessed us training together. My only advice to the uneducated writers, who saturate the JKD world, bring us a little honor to your efforts, and in the future, as professional writers practice, do your homework first. Lastly, proper ethics teaches you not to attack somebody and then invite them to come onto a website to defend themselves. In response to attacks against me not being spiritual: The spiritual aspects of combat never made sense to the rational thinker. However, I studied objectivism and J. Krisnamurti before I ever met Bruce. He encouraged me to integrate these ideologies into my training. Before Krisnamurti died, I attended one of his lectures in Ojai, California. After his talk, he usually accepted visitors in the privacy of his company. I gave his staff a poster and pictures of Bruce Lee to present on Bruce's behalf. I told them that Krisnamurti was one of Bruce's idols. To me, this was an act of profound spiritualism. No other martial artist had done this for Bruce.
DW Forum - Are you still in contact with Chuck Norris and Mike Stone?
Joe Lewis - I recently did one of Chuck Norris' last shows on "Walker Texas Ranger." Chuck is in good shape but focuses his life on acting. Mike Stone lives in the Phillipines. So far as training goes, I have stayed in shape and remain on the cutting edge of the best knowledge available to top fighters.
DW Forum - What was/ is the greatest impact that Bruce had on you personally , whether it be from a physical , or spiritual sense? Also, what are your thoughts on the fact that he's still being talked about after all these decades?
Joe Lewis - I had studied the philosophies of objectivism and J. Krisnamurti before I met Bruce. His ideas complemented and encouraged a similar ideology. He inspired me to embrace this way of thinking and integrated into my physical training. I admired his abstract thinking. These are people who think in principal. We were both artists in the sense of being able to draw and sketch. Although he was Chinese, I saw myself in him.
DW Forum - You have said on numerous occassions that Bruce was not a fighter, but at the same time you say that Bruce was the first Ph.D in martial arts fighting? And you have also written about how when you first met Bruce you were really prejudice in those days, especially of little guys as fighters, what changed your mind? You also write that in those days you didn't care much for talkers, you say, "don't tell me how to fight if you never fought", you go on to say "I was a doer in those days, and I didn't care much for talkers. In other words, don't tell me how great you are, how great your style is, or weather your stuff works or not. Let's simply get in the ring and I'll find out within a matter of seconds". What was it that changed your mind and become one of Bruce's students? Why were your classes private, and were Chuck Norris, or Mike Stone taught privatly also?
Joe Lewis - Bruce told me he did not care about competing. He had no interest in it, and he said he felt there was nothing to gain by him doing so. Little guys, in my opinion, have always been the best trainers. This is because tactically very early in their careers they figure out how to conquer larger opponents. Mike Stone, who I respect, convinced me to study with Bruce. Martial arts does not have a long history as does boxing. Bruce Lee was a wealth of knowledge. No one knew what he had. Bruce Lee was proud to be the instructor of three world champions, Norris, Stone, and myself. With private lessons, he could customize each lesson to fit and compliment the attributes of the individual. I teach this way also.
DW Forum - How do you end a fight with multiple opponents in a very quick and efficient way?? (4 or 5 Opponents). And Who is your hero? or a role model?
Joe Lewis - Against multiple opponents, you only fight one at a time. You respond to the closest first and maneuver so that the opponent you are working against is always between you and the next nearest attacker. I have no martial arts heroes. I'm attracted to scientists in the intellectual arena. Abstract thinkers, not physical types, have always appealed to me most. Bruce Lee was an abstract thinker. That's why I liked him, not because of his techniques.
DW Forum - Have you ever considered putting out a Bio of you life during your tournament days. A book about your start in the martial arts right up to when you became World Kick Boxing champion. I for one like these sort of books and think it would make a good book. Are you still involved in anyway with the UFC, I remember a couple of years ago, maybe it was longer, you interviewed fighters after their matches; what is your opinion of these tournaments today? Do you think that they will ever get the same respect, or media coverage that Boxing does?
Joe Lewis - Some day a good writer would do my life story. Presently, we have a screen play ready entitled, "The One To Beat." I did commentary on the IFC events. They cancel out so much that it's difficult working it into my schedule. I do not like tournaments; they are boring and it's fake fighting. In the 20s, 30s, and 40s, baseball and boxing were America's two major sports. It will take years for the mixed martial arts to ever catch up.
DW Forum - How come it took so long to come out with a book about your relationship with Bruce Lee?
Joe Lewis - Over the years, there have been many statements that others have made about what Bruce Lee or I said. I come from a long chain of world-class fighters, and we pay little attention to those who do the talking and only give credit to those who do their talking in the ring. I wanted this book to set the record straight about my true relationship and training with Bruce Lee. The reviews and feedback I have begun to receive from many of the early readers of the book have been 100% favorable. Most have said it was extremely interesting and long overdue. Most of the material in the book has never been disclosed. It is a major first in the history of martial arts. Ten different writers who knew Bruce Lee, including three of the top karate fighters of all time: Mike Stone, Chuck Norris, and myself, have put our true statements in print for the first time.
DW Forum - Have you read Davis Millers Book 'The Tao of Bruce Lee' and what did you think of it?
Joe Lewis - Davis Miller’s book really upset Bruce Lee’s family, and I understand why. He made many statements which I found extremely offensive and untrue. Several times he attributed comments to me that I never said. Example: He stated that I made a comment that Jeet Kune Do practitioners were more like “Geek Kune Do.” I have never used the word “geek” in my life. It is not a word in my vocabulary.
DW Forum - In Davis Miller's 'The Tao of Bruce Lee' he recounts a story that you told him about how one time Bruce set you up in front of some of his students –Davis writes, "We're training and a couple of his student's are standing around. He says, 'Joe, fire that forehand strike you're working on.' I fired it; he slipped it, and he said, 'Come on Joe, do it again.' I did. And he says, 'just once more, Joe.' The third time I fired the punch, he slipped it and came back with that triple punch you see at the beginning of ENTER THE DRAGON. He goes ba-ba-bam, fires the three shots, hits me square between the eyes. He suckered me. And it took him three tries to pull it off. Next thing I hear, his students are running around saying Bruce kicked my ass, completely showed me up." Can you tell us which students were present and did Bruce ever apologize?
Joe Lewis - The two students that I had met on this occasion behind Bruce’s house were Peter Chin and Ted Wong. The year was 1968. It was not a workout session or a private lesson. Bruce was pretty much just goofing off. He had Ted and myself execute a couple of drills, which he had staged. We were wearing boxing headgear and Kendo gloves. One of us would fire a forward hand strike, and the other would attempt to slip it or deflect it. Bruce asked me to fire the punch at him. My punch was very quick, and it took him a couple of attempts before he could time his counter. On the third attempt, he brushed the punch aside and did a three-punch counter, which is what we saw in the movie, “Enter the Dragon.” We were not sparring as I have never sparred with Bruce nor have I seen him spar. I don’t think any apology from Bruce was warranted. I didn’t see it as a big deal and I still don’t. He was just doing a little timing thing. If Bruce’s students were running around saying Bruce kicked my butt, of course, it is not true and I could care less why they would make this up. This is another reason I wanted to set the record straight with this book.
DW Forum - What were your exhibition bouts like against Leon Spinks and Bill "Superfoot" Wallace? Are many of your fights on film or will there be in the future? I think I heard somewhere that Bruce had film of you competing, if so, do you know where that film is?
Joe Lewis - My exhibition bout with Leon Spinks was a fiasco. His manager asked me not to throw any leg kicks, and while we were in the dressing room before the bout, they approached me asked me to take a dive and pretend Leon Spinks knocked me out. That just showed me again how crooked boxing is. Of course, I said, “no.” Then just before the bell, Leon’s manager walked over to me and asked me not to throw any head kicks, and I said, “Why don’t you just put handcuffs on me and let him beat the hell out of me?” Against “Superfoot,” the Nevada Athletic Commissioner told me two different times before I got in the ring that if I started hitting hard he would personally step in the ring and stop the bout. Against someone who is fast as Bill Wallace, how do you hold back your power while at the same time being able to match his speed? It is impossible. Again, I felt handcuffed. Exhibition or demonstration bouts are a “farce.” It’s too easy for someone to set you up. I’ve seen it happen many times.
DW Forum - Can you tell the forum what exactly happened the time you demonstrated Martial Arts on Muhammad Ali?
Joe Lewis - Muhammad Ali was getting ready to fight the wrestler, Inoki, from Japan. He was at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles doing a press conference in the boxing ring. I simply asked him what he would do if a wrestler did a fake punch at his head and shot for his leg to take him to the ground. He told me to step in the ring and demonstrate. The press pushed me between the ropes, and I found myself face to face with Ali. We were both in street clothes, and he had his hands up shuffling side to side using lateral footwork movements against me. I did a shoulder fake, which he reacted to, and shot for his leg. The instance I hooked his leg, I froze. I was too embarrassed to dump him on his butt. He bent forward and wrapped his arms around my waist, and I heard everybody in the place laugh. I picked him up, did a fireman’s carry takedown, dumping him on his back, and pinned him on the mat. Everybody grabbed me and pulled me off quickly. I jumped up, telling everybody we were just playing. Ali stood up next to me and put his arm around my shoulder. At the time, I was only about 180 pounds because I was pursuing acting not fighting, and my weight was really down. Ali’s first comment to me was, “You lifted weights when you were younger, didn’t you?” I’m sure he could tell I was extremely strong and hard as a brick. Then we did the same movement again, and I pinned him again a second time in a row. That’s when he showed me how he was going to fight Inoki with his back constantly against the ropes.
DW Forum - In your brief film career, what movie are you most proud of and if you had total control over a project to star in, who would you cast and why?
Joe Lewis - I am not really proud of any of my films. I never had a script or a director I could work with. They were all action directors and knew nothing about working with actors. I would like to work in a project with someone like Robert De Niro or Jack Nicholson where I would play someone close to him, such as a brother. I would prefer never to do martial art movies. In the beginning, my acting coaches told me to never do martial art movies. That was one of the reasons I turned Bruce Lee down.
DW Forum - You worked on 'The Silent Flute' or 'Circle of Iron' with David Carradine; had Bruce lived would you have worked with him on 'The Silent Flute' movie, or let's say 'Game of Death' if he asked you again?
Joe Lewis - I am not sure what part I would have played in either of these movies had Bruce Lee asked me to work with him. In retrospect, I would be a fool not to.
DW Forum - The first time you met Bruce in late 1966 in a parking lot outside of Black Belt magazine, Bruce spent about 30-minutes showing you a number of weaknesses in the traditional karate styles and why his system was superior. What exactly did Bruce say and why didn't that convince you to start working with him. Why did you consider only after talking to Mike Stone in 1967 to contact Lee, what did Mike Stone say that Bruce didn't to convince you?
Joe Lewis - This is actually a good story. Both Mike Stone and I talk about this in the book. Mike’s chapter is a real eye opener. Mike was a fighter and I respected his opinion.
DW Forum - There is new film all the time popping up for sale of Bruce Lee's backyard workouts. Did Bruce ever film any of your lessons with him? Do you have any photos of Bruce and yourself, or film of Bruce that have been stored away and never been released?
Joe Lewis - No one ever filmed Bruce Lee and I training together. The photo editor of Black Belt magazine, Oliver Pang, shot a number of rolls of film with me, Bruce Lee, and Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul Jabar) down in China Town in 1967. When Oliver went blind, he turned all of those shots over to Black Belt, which were put in storage, and to date, no one has seen them. In the future, my website, JoeLewisFightingSystems.com, and MartialArtsBooks.com will release old footage of many of my fights, which were shot on 8m and Super 8m back in the 60s.
DW Forum - Mr. Lewis, who, in your opinion, do you think is responsible for glorifying, or building up Bruce as a great warrior, with exceptional powers? The media, the fans or the martial artists and people who actually met and knew him?
Joe Lewis - That is an interesting question. Movies create heroes and myths. The combination of martial arts, which is steeped in myth and the magic of film helped create the Bruce Lee that most people imagine to be real. My image is quite different. This was a guy who was simply brilliant in his concepts, confidence and drive. I’ll take that over the movies any day. Either way we both win. Fans of Bruce have a real martial artist to champion and I have an experience that no one can take away.
DW Forum - What are your thoughts on ground fighting; Gene Lebell said in an interview once that Bruce loved it and "would eat it up.” Did Bruce teach you any ground fighting, or was he more into it later on in his life?
Joe Lewis - I began my training in weightlifting and wrestling as a teenager. I have always felt grappling and weight training provides the best foundation for a fighter. Bruce Lee and I did not do any ground fighting when I was working with him. I think all martial artists today should practice ground maneuvers, such as how to shoot for the legs, a couple of good rear chokes and front chokes, maybe a triangle choke, and sit-out arm bar, and a good standing arm bar. Most of that standing wrist flexing and finger locking stuff does not work in a real situation.
DW Forum - You stated before, that you thought that the UFC and other tournaments like that, when they first started, actually pushed the martial arts back about 50 yrs; do you still think that today, or has it improved in the last 4, or 5 yrs?
Joe Lewis - I never stated that any of the mixed martial arts events pushed martial arts back 50-years. Initially, the UFC events were set up as a challenge to other martial arts styles. I do not play the challenge game. I feel it is very low class. I have never personally made a challenge towards someone or accepted a challenge. It sends the wrong message in martial arts. People who challenge others seem to me to be insecure about their accomplishments or how others perceive their stature as a martial artist.
The fighters who have learned to punch more effectively have surpassed the mixed martial arts fighters who only have grappling skills. When the day comes that the top fighters can kick as well as punch, together with excellent grappling skills, that will be the birth of a great sport.
DW Forum - You met Dan Inosanto for the first time ever and did an interview with him for your new book; what was your impression of him before the interview and what was your impression after?
Joe Lewis - Before I met Danny, I had known his daughter, Diana, and her husband for a number of years. Contrary to the rumors I had heard, Diana told me that her father had great respect for me. I found him to be very sociable, charming, and talkative. It was an extremely pleasant first meeting. I think the two of us hit it off like two old kids who had grown up together. He added a great deal to the insight and credibility to the book. Many of his statements about his training with Bruce Lee were identical to those I had made about Bruce over the past 30-years. In particular was the fact that both Danny and I stated that Bruce Lee was constantly changing his definition of Jeet Kune Do and the correct application of its respected combat drills. Many of these are illustrated in the book.
DW Forum - Do you think that Bruce Lee was gradually going to phase out trapping, wing chung, in Jeet Kune and incorporate more Kickboxing?
Joe Lewis - No doubt, Bruce Lee was phasing out much of the trapping from his Wing Chung training. He was incorporating a lot from kickboxing at the time I was working with him. One example was when he threw his round kick. He was teaching people how to roll the hip into the kick before you release the knee extension at contact. Another example was that instead of kicking with your toes or the ball of your foot on the round kick, he began teaching making contact with the anklebone and the lower part of the shin. He was also starting to add more in and out type engaging drills. The old Wing Chung practitioners would penetrate their opponent’s defensive perimeter, engage with a combination but neglect to pull out or disengage at the end. Bruce was correcting this tactical oversight.
DW Forum - In your great fighting career, what was your greatest moment in the ring?
Joe Lewis - I had no great moments in the ring. I never enjoyed beating up another person. My greatest moment in martial arts was the day they promoted me to black belt in Okinawa. That was 40-years ago.
DW Forum - During your tournament days you were known for your power, speed and finesse as a fighter, but you also didn't drink alcohol, coffee, tea, or smoke cigarettes, do you still practice these good habits?
Joe Lewis - I still practice my clean-living habits today at age 60. I will compare my body against any 25-year-old fighter today. I drink tea, but I never liked the taste of alcohol or coffee, and I cannot stand cigarette smoke.
DW Forum - Tom Bleeker wrote a book on Bruce Lee and said in it that Bruce Lee used steroids and I also read that he used drugs; during your time with Bruce, did you witness any of this, if so was it once, twice, or not at all?
Joe Lewis - I do not know anything about Tom Bleeker, nor have I ever met him. As far as Bruce Lee using steroids, I don’t think it is anyone’s business. Steroids make fighters short-winded, and only a fool would take them unless you need to gain weight quickly for some professional purpose. The church; the state; or any of his peers did not own Bruce Lee’s body. His body was his property and his only. Therefore, it is no one’s business what he chose to put in his body. I wish everyone would respect this philosophical principle.
DW Forum - Have you been in any knock down drag out street fights? If so, what was your toughest fight outside the ring (if any)? Please explain in detail.
Joe Lewis - I have followed two rules all my life. I do not drink, and I do not hang out with other guys. Why hang out with men when you can hang out with women? If you follow these two simple rules, life is not only a hell of a lot more fun but it is impossible to get into street fights. Street fighting is for two people: kids and/or hoodlums who have no respect for the principles of being a responsible martial artist. Street fighters have two counts against them: 1) They try to solve problems by force, and 2) indirectly they’re teaching others that they condone violence. I fully reject this premise.
DW Forum - Do you feel that as time goes by you are a better fighter (meaning in the street not tournament competition) today then you were in your prime? Or is just a matter of adjustments, as you grow older?
Joe Lewis - I have never thought of myself as being a better street fighter in any respect. I know more today about how to avoid that kind of nonsense. I have nothing to prove by getting into a street altercation. As was 30-to 40-years ago, if push comes to shove, my favorite move has always been to spin my opponent into a rear choke. That way, no one gets hurt, and when the cops come, there are no bruises or blood. Street fighters keep their records down at the local police department. I want my fight records to remain where they belong — only in the record books.
DW Forum - Today there's definitely a huge misunderstanding of what JKD actually was, would it would be fair to say that the basic aim of JKD was merely to become a natural martial artist rather than a mechanical one?
Joe Lewis - The best way to answer this question is to ask the serious thinking martial artists to not only read my book but to study and to use it as a research manual. Many black belts from around the country who have already received their personal issue tell me that they carry it with them always as a manual. In one of the chapters in the book, I discuss Bruce Lee’s obsession with teaching martial artists how to avoid this trap of duality. As in acting or any artistic endeavor, be it combat or a musician playing an instrument, one’s execution of his craft must always be in perfect unison between his technique and his current emotional state. I explained in the book how this process could be learned and executed. It is one of the keys to understanding the core of the premise of Jeet Kune Do philosophy.
DW Forum - 60-years from now, when people mention the name Joe Lewis, how would you want to be remembered?
Joe Lewis - I have seriously never given this question any thought. To dignify my efforts and to be able to have been known to live with dignity would be my greatest attribute. I feel that few of us martial artists have ever accomplished that. I have never stated in public that I have beaten anyone by name. I have never misrepresented my real rank nor have I ever claimed to win a title that I had not. Although I failed my first green belt test in Okinawa, a year later, when I was handed a second-degree black belt certificate, I refused to accept it. I am the only martial artist in North America that I know of who has not only trained in every country from Korea southward all the way to Australia, but I am perhaps the only one who received the last rights from the same master priest in Tokyo who administered the last rights to the Kamikaze pilots during World War II. I have tried to make the standard and the status for that which a black belt stands to always represent a very noble and worthy accomplishment. I wish others would respect and follow this same rule. I do not expect more than a handful of martial artists to ever be able to duplicate my examples. However, I trust that some will be able to live in the light of dignity, which I have described above.
DW Forum - Thanks again Joe for doing this interview with us.
Joe Lewis - Your very welcome.
Nice find, Don.
BRUCE LEE hands down
i agree here if we are just talking about Bruce in his era then he could hold his own but not todays BJJQuote:
Originally Posted by NelsonLucca
Great interview. He never sparred and he wasn't a fighter. Being a great instructor doesn't translate into being a great fighter and vice versa. We see that today all the time (Greg Jackson for example).
"Bruce was not a fighter. He was an actor and a teacher. He was a great teacher."
And all that about Bruce being too quick and what not. Ok.
"Joe Lewis - Please, drop all the stuff you've heard. Martial arts is full of nonsense. Only believe what you have seen or can prove. Show me more than three real punches in a second and I will kiss your butt. ON film, Ali's jab took 7 frames to complete, and Sugar Ray's took 9 frames. A second of film takes 24 frames. Simple math guys. Three real punches per second and that is it. Less talk and more proof. Let's get in the ring and show off some of these secrets. They pay millions of dollars. That beats eating rice all your life and teaching martial arts forever anytime?"
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...KarateKick.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Carey
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...doJiuJitsu.jpg
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...1027015815.jpg
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...KarateKick.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Carey
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...doJiuJitsu.jpg
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...1027015815.jpg
That looks like a black belt to me.
:)
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...1027015815.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Carey
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...doJiuJitsu.jpg
[IMGhttp://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae253/skemekos23/BruceJudoThrowAndKarateKick.jpg[/IMG]
That looks like a black belt to me.
:)
Lee!!!!!!!!!!!!!
he wore a black belt cuz they let him. he was not a black belt . i will answer any questions. i did a in depth research report on the man for a project. he didn't even finish the wing chun school he studied at. he was good as chuck said . but to fight you have to fight. not make movies. common sense. i love him. but fighter is someone who fights right? not someone who trains martial arts and does movies. lee had the physical training to be anything he wanted. he wanted to make movies get rich and be famous. thats what he wantedQuote:
Originally Posted by Ian Howell
source please?Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Blankenship
where's your source saying that he got a black belt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah Mendoza
He was not a black belt in judo. Plain and simple
How can you finish a martial art? There is no end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Blankenship
Bruce Lee was an actor. I'll take any mma fighter over him
Randy Couture is an actor. Bruce was a fighter 1st, then became an actor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carson
I finished Hamster style kung fu under Sensei Choda Boy, but I was forced to stop practicing by the government because it is deemed "too brutal" for anyone to use in any situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Brown
http://watchplayread.com/files/2008/11/orgazmo010bh.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQrHsrKIspM
theirs multiple pictures of bruce wearing a black belt what more proof do u want... i think its stupid how people say they let him wear a black belt bullshit. bruce lee was a monster he would deafeat any gracie bruce lee knocked out multiple martial art experts within seconds... what makes the gracies any different
Bruce lee was amazingly famous, so this question should be easy to answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emir Mehovic
Who gave him his black belt?
Did you not read anything in this thread, especially the Joe Lewis interview where he specifically said Bruce was not a figher? Probably to much to read but it is very interesting and it will most likely be hard to swallow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emir Mehovic
i read the joe lewis interview the guy doesnt know what hes talking about how would he know if bruce lee was a fighter or not if he never witnessed any of bruce lees fights i said who bruce got his black belt from multiple times.
Bruce trained with "Judo" Gene LeBell, after Gene physically embarrased him on the set of the Green Hornet. Bruce was NOT a black belt in Judo, but developed a long term relationship with Gene. Judo lineage is realitve easy to trace, as there are governing bodies.
Bruce was inspiration for most of us, I have alot of respect for popularizing the martial arts, and for breaking the mold of traditional martial arts. But there is NO evidence of him being a fighter, on the contrary most of the evidence is against it. The doesn't take anything away from the fact he was an amazing teacher and innovater.
Bruce (and Chuck Norris) were two of the driving forces behind me starting to train.
The reality is, Chuck was far more of a competitor/fighter than Bruce was. This doesn't take away from Bruces reputation (which happens to get Bruce supports all upset) it actually is a testament to everything else he accomplished.
bruce lee knew the twister... no way he would have lost
um cuz he trained with Bruce and was a friend of his maybe? The same thing that Mike Stone or Chuck Norris would say as in the Chuck video I posted a while back. He already is considered the greatest Martial Artist of all time don't make him more than he is. He wasn't interested in fighting. If he was he would have done like Ali, sugar ray, and Joe Lewis did. Find someone to train you and fight, not spend all day on a movie set. Bruce wanted money and to "honestly express himself." What better way to get that than through the big screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emir Mehovic
Gene on Bruce:
"I met Bruce Lee on the set of the Green Hornet when the stunt coordinator Benny Dobbins called me and told me he needed me to take some falls. He also mentioned there was a guy there named Bruce Lee who was unbelievably athletic and stealing all the scenes from the star because he was doing ALL the fighting. Benny said he couldn't believe this guy, he was kicking like a jumping bean! You have to understand; they had never seen anything like Bruce Lee s fighting style in showbiz yet.
"When I got to the set Benny pointed Bruce out and told me to go put him in a headlock or something Well, I m a good employee and I always listen to the boss, so I went over to grab Bruce and he starts making all those crazy noises he became famous for. As a joke, I picked him up and put him on my shoulder in a fireman's carry kind of thing, then I ran down the length of the set and back again. Bruce says "put me down or I'll kill you". So I run down the set again and he says, "put me down" and I say "I can't put you down or you'll kill me". After that I sat down and talked to my boss and the other crew members for a couple minutes with him up on my shoulder. He finally crawled off, we all had a good laugh, and we went and shot our scenes.
"Bruce called me for a few shows because he liked the way I took falls for him - being a judo man made me pretty good at breakfalls. We ended up becoming friends and would work out together and teach each other techniques. I liked working out with Bruce, but I kept getting sick from that stinky incense he burned in his gym. I told him I wouldn't go there because his dojo smelled worse than a Chinese laundry house. Of course, I was only kidding with him, and once Bruce learned that my teasing was all in good fun he started to joke around too. Bruce came to my dojo after that. He was a great guy, and I loved him.
"Bruce loved to learn grappling, he ate it up! He said that people would never go for it in movies or TV because the fights are over too fast and most of the good stuff was hidden from view. He said they wanted to see fancy kicking, acrobatics, and weapons -- he was a savvy showman who knew how to give 'em exactly what they wanted. I wish he could be around now to see how well grappling is doing these days. I remember one time he kicked me really hard. I remember thinking it was a good thing he only wore a size 6 shoe instead of a 14 like me, otherwise that kick would have sent me to China! He was strong for his size, lemme tell ya.
"He used to take me to these authentic Chinese restaurants that had really weird looking food that I just couldn t bring myself to eat it. I don't eat anything that doesn't have horns. He used to tease me about it - which was progress because he used to get offended at my ribbing when we first started hanging out (especially that Chinese laundry bit). He had two students that I remain good friends with to this day, probably because they don't make me eat that weird food. Danny Inosanto, who is every bit as good as Bruce was if not better, and Richard Bustillo. Richard has carried on Bruce's philosophy of cross training and peak physical condition in order to become the best fighter you can.
"I miss both Bruce and Brandon and wish they were still around today."
Gene on Chuck:
Chuck Norris "Borrows" Gene's Black Belt
Story By Gene LeBell as told to Ray Normandin
"Many years ago, one of the first times I worked out with Chuck Norris was in the gymnasium at Los Angeles City College. Chuck had come in ready for a workout and I noticed he was wearing a white belt. I thought to my self, "that Chuck Norris is a black belt in his system and he is very well respected, what the heck is he doing in a white belt?"
"In my schools or wherever I teach, I strongly advocate cross training. I believe if a martial artist comes in, especially a black belt, he or she can teach their techniques to other people that might want to learn some of their moves. In my opinion, if a person is actually a black belt, I feel they should wear their black belt even if they are not training in the style they are trying to learn. Now if that person were afraid of getting beat up, then they would wear a white belt to throw any accomplished black belt off. However, Chuck Norris is a modest man, he is not braggadocios, so he wore his white belt and I said to him, "Hey Chuck, you wear a black belt don't you?" Chuck replied back, " I didn't bring a black belt with me". So I decided to give him one of my black belts with my name on it. You know, "Gene LeBell."
"We worked out and had a great time. When we finished and it came time for us to leave, I was sitting there waiting for my black belt back and (*) Chuck takes it with him. I knew then how much Chuck Norris wanted to be just like me!!! I went up to Chuck's dear friend, Bob Wall, who was also training with us, and said "Gee, Chuck took my belt". Bob replied, "Well, that is tough, that's what he does to ugly guys".
"The next thing I knew Chuck was doing a movie in Houston, Texas called "Sidekicks". I believe Chuck was rehearsing with Bob Wall and wearing a karate gi and my black belt. A dozen young kids eventually saw that Chuck was wearing "my" belt and said out loud, "Why is Mr. Norris, wearing a black belt with someone else's name on it?" Bob Wall told me, he told the kid's, "The only way to wear another man's belt is to kill him in a death match".
"Bob called me on my cell phone and said, "Gene it seems that in Houston, Texas; you're a dead man". It seems that I can't go to Texas and work on any more movies or anything else and to top it all off, Chuck still has my black belt to this day. In fact, there is a great picture of Chuck Norris and Bob Wall standing back to back in their karate gis and Chuck is wearing my black belt in the picture.
"During this time, I had the opportunity to see Chuck Norris in all his karate glory. Chuck was having dinner with three of his friends. After a wonderful dining experience, the check was delivered to the table. Of course, each man went for the check to the pay the balance of the meal. However, Chuck would have nothing to do with this. He wanted to pay the check himself and wouldn't take no for an answer. Well, the other three men wouldn't take no for an answer either, so Chuck had to fight them for the check. With a few artfully placed kicks and throws, he threw one guy over his shoulder. Chuck did the famous "Chuck Norris Spinning Back Kick" to the second guy. The third and fourth guys, he took out at the same time with a well placed combination of a round kick and a spinning back fist, it was as if Chuck had forgotten that this was real life and not a movie. No man from the table was left standing and Mr. Norris paid the bill. Many of Chuck's friends call him by his given name, Carlos; most people call him Chuck Norris or Mr. Norris. However, if you are dining with Chuck Norris, you had better be quick with the cash or remember his real name, which stems from his manners at the dinner table, "Check Norris".
"Let me get serious for a moment, in the movie business there is a pecking order. That order is extra, production assistant, second A.D., first A.D., and all the way up to the top. Chuck Norris is at the Top; he is a producer, a director, an actor and a star. However, Chuck will talk to an extra or stuntman like they are his equals. Chuck Norris is modest and humble. I have heard Chuck say, "Oh, anybody can beat me, I just get out there and have fun" which isn't actually so. I have seen Chuck work out and he works harder than anyone I have ever seen at perfecting his art. He puts on great seminars and is very attentive to the needs of his students. I have put on my share of seminars and have taken off my belt only to have someone run off with my belt and even my gi top. Who thought Chuck Norris would be the next guy to take off without giving me back my black belt, go figure!
"This time I will be serious; Chuck Norris is an outstanding martial artist, a great actor, a good friend and a class act!"
Gene LeBell
*Chuck did not really steal Gene's belt. Gene insisted that Chuck take it to wear the next time he came to the dojo. Chuck has stated he considers it an honor to have been given the belt and he wears it as a sign of respect. The above story is stated for humor's sake. Gene also says that the reports of his death are greatly exaggerated.
well, knowing that the gracies chickened out on fighting Benny Urquidez once they found out that he trained with gene lebell, it wouldnt be surprising if the same thing happened, if they challenged bruce lee...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank W. Zellers
The "gracie challenge" was put out by Helio & Carlos Gracie back in and around 1940s/50s. Not In the 80s!! Christ Helio had grandchildren by then he was of such an age. (and begun JJ at 16years old).
Back on point, i think it would of been interesting. Bruce Lee had great ground skills, (some can even be seen being used in films like Enter The Dragon (armbar on Boloyung) and also Game of death (the parts he was in anyway)!! If one of the Gracies managed to close the distance and take him down, i belive it would only be a matter of time till Bruce went sleep. (Then he would of learned everything about BJJ and become a serious threat to the world!! lol.
You know what I find funny? bruce lee fans point out how fast he took out someone who challenged to a fight on a movie set (stuntman of course), and yet magically there's no video? I mean, he's a movie star. On a movie set. Getting into a challenge match with a stuntman...and there's no recording at all???
Yeah, I know what I smell.
Yeah that's true ... And know what I think? .... I think they have some pretty good topics in this forum ... As much as a Bruce Fan I am ... I'll give it to the Gracie's ... We've got loads of footage of Gracie's beating striking instructors, and what does Bruce Lee have? ... Stories ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Carey
I dont understand why so many people would lie for bruce lee?Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flores
Well...It all boils down to love, and respect...Like lets say your a kid, and your dad has some Karate knowledge, and you've seen him break a couple boards...As a kid, or as someone with a great amount of respect for someone your going to embellish the tale, and say, "Oh my dads so strong, this one time, he broke like 20 boards with one punch!!" When in reality, it was like 3 or 4. Same goes for Bruce, and his fans ... "He can lift this much, or he can fly, and no way dude the other day I saw him walking on water, and talking to Jesus." ... Bruce was good, no doubt, but its just his friends love him so much to embellish his stories.. I got in a fight once in high school, and we brawled for a bit, and I hit him like 4 times before he went down, and my friends always keep telling everyone I dodged his swing, and lay'd him out with one hit...Same concept...Sorry if I'm going on, and on, I'm just trying to give some examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emir Mehovic
And uh...Chuck Norris Jokes are the same thing...Well.....They're all true, but you know what I mean. :p
I think it would only take a few punches before a gracie would get knocked the fuck out!
Bruce Lee...via Kick to the Face.