lol agreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Perez
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lol agreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Perez
Maia found the secret to not being ko'd by Silva. Dont strike at him and he cant counter you. Its like he had some kind of Tai Chi defend/counter only thing goin on for a while. Hopefully we wont see that out of Silva again after Dana W said he would cut him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel"EL DIABLO"Diaz
I see what you are saying, the problem is the way I saw the fight is Nick won the first three rounds and that is what his corner was telling him also so he probably did not see a need to adjust. After the fourth round Nate even said "ok he got that one but you got the first three" and then nick comes back in to win the fifth in my opinion and even hit the take down when he saw the opportunity and tried to finish even though his corners were telling him and he probably felt he had enough for the decision. That shows he wanted to finish. I think your right in that Nick should look at this and see ways to improve his game like working on his wrestling so if a guy is going to run from him he can more easily get the fight to the ground. He has never had to dictate where the fight took place because he didn't really care he was confident where ever his opponent wanted to fight being one of the best boxers in mma and a bad ass on the ground. But he should work on that for the next time someone doesn't want to take down him down and runs from him standing up.Quote:
Originally Posted by VJ Bella
Diaz landed more effective strikes? How do you measure an effective strike? What is an effective strike? Is it measured by the amount of force it applied per square inch of area?
This is how Diaz and Condit looked like right after the fight. I think it is obvious who did more damage.
http://i.imgur.com/Z7USO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HzkSx.jpg
Give me a break dude look at Nicks face in that interview with Helwani his face is fucking hamburger meat and scar tissue when he walks into the ring. That's a scratch on his cheek who knows how the hell that happened. The hat condit is wearing casts a nice shadow but if you watch the post fight press conference his eye doesn't look any better.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyK5
http://www.ufc.com/media/143-post-pc
Nick has more scar tissue than any one if you remember, he lost to kj noons due to a cut, and a lot of fighters just tried to cut him to get fights stopped, so those little marks don't mean shit, he had damage against BJ too, bottom line is Condit didn't come to fight Nick like the promos said he would, thers no way around that the dude turned his back and ran serveral times, " Kerr Dog"
when kj did come to fight nick he got his jaw broke lol
Look like glove scratches to me. He took less punches from Penn and looked far worse. Why? Cause Penn (a natural LW) hits harder and came to fightQuote:
Originally Posted by AndyK5
So much cry baby in this thread it's embarrassing. I'm disappointed in a lot of guys here.
It's real simple: What do you do with a guy who never stops moving forward and doesn't get KO'd? You do exactly what Condit did. Condit came to WIN. IMO the way he didn't it was exciting. But that's my opinion.
Either way, Condit was more active. Condit controlled the pace, distance, and initiated more. Condit landed elbows, kicks, punches. The fight was dictated by Condit. All Nick was doing was following the leader and playing Condit's game. Condit can't be blamed for employing a smart game plan. After the first round I knew exactly what Condit was doing. Nick should catch equal blame for not being able to figure it out.
Back to the fence to lure Diaz. Everyone knows Nick likes to pepper you up when your back is on the fence. Except Condit was using it to open an opportunity to counter punch and slip out and take the center of the cage. Leg kicks. Back up to the cage. Counter punch. Slip out. Take center of octagon. Rinse. Repeat. Blame Nick for not catching on.
Nick said "that sounds all good, but try that when you're moving backward the whole fight." Guess what? He did. And he won.
Another funny thing about Diaz and how he doesn't fight for points....he said he though he was ahead on the cards, otherwise "I bet you anything I would've finished that arm bar." LOL. So you didn't finish because you though you had more points? LOL. You guys are mad for nothing. Condit just didn't win the way YOU wanted him to win. But IMO he put on a great intelligent performance.
Sounds like sour grapes from Diaz fans and guys who were looking for a KO and didn't get one. It's the same way a person hates a great movie because it didn't have as much action as they thought it would. Perception is everything it seems.
Quite frankly...nobody gives a shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
I will adress the rest of your post later, if I still care, when I have time.
Well i guess MMA just isn't for me anymore. I feel it has gone from a display of strong efficient combat abilities to point sparring al la Karate...
Jackson talks about the fight strategy against Diaz (video)
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news...Internet-but-/
You act like your opinion is held in such high regard in this forum. Youre disappointed that people in this thread have a different opinion than you? Its not like we're a select few that believe Diaz won at least 3 rounds (some people more). Its pretty divided man. I'm sure you're right though, guys like Pat Militech, Duke Roufus, and Mark Munoz are just HUGE Diaz fans that they're just blinded. Yeah that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
Condit can't have it both ways: he is either a killer, or he's a smart guy. He may have earned his moniker as the Natural Born Killer, but he chose to be the smart guy in the stiffest test to his killer reputation to date. After that fight it was clear that he did not care about cementing his legacy as the world's most badass fighter nearly as much as he cared about being the WW champion. Forgive us fans if we're a little upset that the smart guy showed up.
Why you mad then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Wylie
I think Condit displayed efficient combat abilities. You can't blame a guy for not being able to KO Diaz. Daley hits harder and couldn't do it. Don't give up on MMA off one fight. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
LOL. My opinion is one opinion. I'm disappointed in the whining. Few people have actually put together rational arguments. Most people are just saying Condit ran while disregarding that he controlled the fight and landed more and nullified Nick's whole style. I consider this forum to be a little smarter than the average MMA fan so I'm surprised that I'm seeing more emotional responses to what people don't LIKE vs strong analysis for what actually happened. That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
But it's not like I'm the Jesus of MMA analysis. Maybe disappointed is the wrong word. Maybe I should say surprised. But there is a lotta cry baby going on though. We can disagree and still be friends though.
:D
How does Condit kill? What is Condit to do if he still wants to win, but doesn't have the tools to kill Nick Diaz? He employs a winning strategy. And I dont' see how he can't be both.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Stager
If you go around calling yourself the Natural Born Killer, you should want to put that reputation on the line and go for broke. Otherwise get a new nickname. Nick Diaz came into this fight looking to find out if he really was as much of a badass as he thought he was. The same cannot be said for Condit.
Yes but I dont think Daley was trying to "out point" him either. I just don't want to see that. To me that is point sparring Karate. Could you imagine going to a Jiu Jitsu tourny and have the game plan of taking someone down then stalling until you win because you are afraid the other guy may sub you? No way I'm going for the sub every time and if i don't get it then at least i went out there and busted my ass you know? (Not that Lyoto Machida/Thompson shit where they knock guys out because that shit is legit)Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
Sorry fixed!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
This is a sport! Not a Bad Ass competition. The goal is to win. Anyway you can!
I feel like that mentality takes the excitement out of fights. Like i said before no one like the guy that scores the takedown in a jiu jitsu competition then stalls for the rest of the round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
There is a price to paid for playing it safe. Condit is no longer the Natural Born Killer. He threw that reputation away. A lot of people tuned into this fight, not to see who would be the next Interim WW Champ, but because they wanted to settle the debate: Which of these two guys is the bigger killer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
One decision doesn't negate his whole career of finishing guys. LOL. See what I'm saying? Emotional reactions based on dislike rather than logic. But I understand why guys are mad. Expected a brawl. Got tactical. It's like going to watch Kill Bill but getting Inglorious Basterds.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Stager
And Daley lost as a result. Condit was throwing flying knees. Hard elbows. Spinning back fists. Head kicks. I dont' think he was going for points with those. He just couldn't KO Diaz. But who has? Can't blame Condit for winning. Blame Diaz for losing. The jiu jitsu analogy doesn't work because Condit wasn't stalling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
Also, prior to Machida getting confidence in his KO power, he wasn't KO'ing no one and was considered a boring counter fighter. If Condit had that reputation, I think people would've seen this fight differently.
LOL. One fight where he couldn't put a guy away that NOBODY puts away, and he's no longer a killer. Hahaha. That's funny. And the bigger killer is neither since Diaz didn't put Condit away either.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Stager
I'm seeing tons of close mindedness in this thread. People are only seeing what they want to see. I'm done here.
Kind of ironic. But as soon as I noticed disagreement on this subject, I've been saying it: perception is everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
I'm not seeing what I wanna see. I'm seeing what happened. No bias. In fact, I watched it with the expectation that Nick would win. But as time went on in the fight, I noticed that Nick was chasing and Condit was landing.
But it's cool. Sorry if I came off like a douchey faggot. Maybe I am a douchey faggot. Not my intention. I'll work on it.
I don't dispute that Condit earned his reputation. Before this fight he only had one win by decision. But this was not the fight to take an off night from being a killer. This was supposed to be the culmination of two careers defined by bad-assery. Nick Diaz would have been Condit's most impressive scalp to date, and vice versa. But Condit opted for the safe route to victory.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
And please, PLEASE! Stop making it sound like I expected a finish. Diaz didn't finish Penn, but he looked impressive nonetheless. There wasn't anything impressive about Condit's win over Diaz.
I wouldn't have minded Carlos' strategy if it would have resulted in a knockout. If the goal of your strategy is just to win by decision then, as a fan, I think that's lame. I respect the sport minded perspective of some fans but people don't compile highlight reels of best decision victories.
Was it silly for Carlos to engage Nick in the pocket and on the ground? Of course, but for that reason he shouldn't have taken the fight. The smarter less dangerous fighter outscored one of the most dangerous men on the planet. Does Condit being smarter than Nick make him more dangerous? No, because he couldn't come close to finishing Nick. Paul Daley was closer to finishing Diaz than Condit was.
You should Google the word ironic...Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
I agree! That's why I believe all Jiu Jitsu tournaments should be Submission Only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
MMA is a sport, with potentially a lot of money on the line and endorsements. Most competitive people just want to win...not caring how, or worrying about what fans think. Athletes Winning at any cost...is common in all sports!
Living up to nickname. REALLY! Really! My nickname is "foot long"...all the girls get disappointed! nickname haha...jk
Yes, Boring fights suck! But I understand why fighters fight to win.
haha, touchéQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
[QUOTE=David Rosado;113846]Why you mad then?
I think Condit displayed efficient combat abilities. You can't blame a guy for not being able to KO Diaz. Daley hits harder and couldn't do it. Don't give up on MMA off one fight. LOL.
LOL. My opinion is one opinion. I'm disappointed in the whining. Few people have actually put together rational arguments. Most people are just saying Condit ran while disregarding that he controlled the fight and landed more and nullified Nick's whole style. I consider this forum to be a little smarter than the average MMA fan so I'm surprised that I'm seeing more emotional responses to what people don't LIKE vs strong analysis for what actually happened. That's all.
But it's not like I'm the Jesus of MMA analysis. Maybe disappointed is the wrong word. Maybe I should say surprised. But there is a lotta cry baby going on though. We can disagree and still be friends though.
:D[/dude what are you talking about ? Ko Nick, Condit didn't come to "Fight" let alone ko anybody, Nick came to ko condit, & condit came to point fight, thats what people are pissed about
well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by David Stager
thank you, thats the whole reason i orderd this fight & invited everyone i knew, mostly non mma fans, & they talked mad shit on how mma is just sloppy striking with takedowns, & i couldn't say shit in mma's defence, what a fucked up feeling, to know your right but to not be able to say shitQuote:
Originally Posted by David Stager
dude are you forgetting the fact that most of the flash strikes condit through didn't hit shit, so throwing is just like landing ? & Nick can't knock out someone who turns there back & runs to avoid combat, & when condit did stand in the pocket he got tagged with head & body combos, & don't forget Nick's flurry in 2nd round, the judges just ignored that shitQuote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
Greg Jackson's point of view:
Jackson: I'm sorry there's flack on the Internet, but ...
In a recent interview with Sherdog, perennial Coach of the Year Greg Jackson, lays out and defends the strategy Carlos Condit used to defeat Nick Diaz Saturday night at UFC 143 for the Wleterweight Interim title.
"That was the game plan," said Jackson. "When you are fighting a guy like Nick who is so amazing and he does things so well, the last thing you want to do is sit kind of flat footed and get in a face punching contest with him.
"And so 'm sorry there's flack going around the Internet, but If you don't appreciate the way Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard or some of these great guys that do their sticking and moving, I don't know what to tell you.
"I am not going to tell my guy to do what the other guy is really really good at. and then throw the dice and win It seems to me the smart thing to do would be to hit him a lot and then not get hit.
"I'm no rocket scientist, but hitting a lot and not getting hit … sounds like a good idea."
"Part of our game plan was the body attack, with the legs and the body. That attack came to fruition. It is kind of like investing in a bank - you are putting your money in in the early rounds, and then you start slowing down and start to take over.
"At that crucial time, at that pivotal third round, when Nick started to slow down, Carlos started to speed up. So sometimes you can go and use, you can stay away from someone's strengths. Certainly we did that ..."
"In addition to that, you can go after someone's strengths. Nick's strength is pace, and so we wanted to slow down that pace a lot, and let Carlos dictate that."
so there it is Condit didn't come to fight, he came to win a pka karate points match, & Nick came to fight, & thats what people are pissed about, Cowboy Ceronie is the real "natural born killer" of jackson's gym, not ConditQuote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Allen
The strategy was fine. What Condit and Jackson fail to understand is that such a strategy should have been used to KO Diaz in the later rounds. Instead, they just maintained their lead and plodded along safely. Ali capitalized on his ability to evade punches by finishing many of his opponents, that desire to finish was completely lacking in Condit's fight. Strategically, their plan seemed incomplete. Alright, you slowed Diaz down, now finish him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Allen
Again, I say this as a fan. Strategically, they made the right call (obviously) but I can't say that I'm looking forward to another Condit fight. Give me a glass jawed Imanari fight any day over that stuff.
LOL. That's funny. I say it's ironic because you're accusing people of closed mindedness but you're not considering the other side. I can say, hey, I understand why people think Diaz won. People value walking forward and punches to be more valuable than controlling distance, accuracy, volume, and effective striking. So I can see why people think that way. Therefore, I'm not closed minded. On the other hand, it seems you might be. Looking at things objectively, with no bias, the scoring was accurate. Looking at things with personal preference, you can say you prefer the way Nick fought and so he deserved to win. One is objective. The other is subjective. Who's really being closed minded?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
Winning the stand up against a guy who's as dangerous as Diaz is impressive. Not falling into the trap that Nick sets is impressive. Controlling the pace that Nick usually sets is impressive. It may not have been brutal or violent, but it was tactical as hell. Perception is everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Stager
I've never known a flying knee to be thrown to score points. People are ASSUMING Condit wasn't trying to KO him. I agree, Condit didn't spend the whole fight throwing haymakers, but I could tell he was trying to finish at certain points. He just couldn't. Nick's got a good chin.Quote:
Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme
Exactly, you can't knock someone out with crappy footwork. It's equally Nick's fault for not being able to break out of his linear fight style. IMO, the best punches Nick landed was a nice body combo. Other than that, he did a lot of chasing, not a lot of effective striking though. The judges didn't ignore it. Condit just landed more. One good flurry vs a whole fight of control and counter striking doesn't win fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme
I'm not sure where you got that idea. If I were Condit, I'd do the same thing. Try to wear him down then get the KO in later rounds. I'm thinking that punch leg kick head kick combo was for that. Nick just shook it off. Can't assume a guy's not trying just because he can't do something.Quote:
Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme