Popovitch: Gi is boring, I don't like it, No-gi is a better Sport

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Originally Posted by Aiseop

You ever wish you taught in GI, Brandon? Would it get more people in your gym?

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I don't know enough about the gi to comfortably teach in it and ask people to pay me for the knowledge.

It would probably bring in more people, but I am not qualified to teach it and I just don't want to. I think it distorts the philosophy to offer both at a 10th Planet academy. I know we have others who wouldn't agree with that and that's fine. It's just how I feel.

But no, the 10th Planet school in our city is not struggling at all right now. Bigger than ever and growing every week.

Thanks. :)

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Originally Posted by Aiseop

Are the 10th Planet Moons doing that badly compared to other schools in their area?

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What does one have to do with the other? My point is that Pablo could possibly lose money by leaning more toward no gi. Considering that he has already established his school as a gi primary school, why toy with it? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. While 10th planet schools aren't struggling, gi schools are growing faster than no gi schools. That should tell you about the market.

On a side note, I was there to witness when Empire dropped the gi. I witnessed a piece of history. And as fate would have it, the empire grew bigger and badder than ever. So maybe if he brought in a badass striking coach and converted to an mma school (Empire already was an MMA school), maybe he would get MORE students and get to do more no gi.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

What does one have to do with the other? My point is that Pablo could possibly lose money by leaning more toward no gi. Considering that he has already established his school as a gi primary school, why toy with it? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. While 10th planet schools aren't struggling, gi schools are growing faster than no gi schools. That should tell you about the market.

On a side note, I was there to witness when Empire dropped the gi. I witnessed a piece of history. And as fate would have it, the empire grew bigger and badder than ever. So maybe if he brought in a badass striking coach and converted to an mma school (Empire already was an MMA school), maybe he would get MORE students and get to do more no gi.

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It's been really interesting watching the fluctuation over the last decade or so in grappling. When I started in 2001-2002, it seemed like no-gi was really strong. Then in the second half of that decade, gi training grew and grew until it seemed like there were 100 gi guys for every no-gi guy. During that period, it got so bad I had even an American BJJ Black Belt publicly declaring things to me like "99% of no-gi guys ARE NOTHING compared to a decent gi purple belt" and "99% of [no-gi guys] are horrible compared to their gi trained counterparts". Even gyms like FFA and Jeremy Horn's were eventually forced to offer gi programs.

Now 10th Planet is coming on super strong in competition and it seems like no-gi is starting to come back again. Ryan Hall is talking about how he is mainly aimed at no-gi and MMA right now. A guy on the level of Pablo Popovitch is saying that gi is boring and unrealistic. Josh Barnett is making people fear catch wrestling. Eddie destroyed Royler. Seems like things are finally swinging back.

It's cool these days to hear stories like the one about a gym like Rochester dropping the gi and thriving after doing so.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

What does one have to do with the other? My point is that Pablo could possibly lose money by leaning more toward no gi. Considering that he has already established his school as a gi primary school, why toy with it? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. While 10th planet schools aren't struggling, gi schools are growing faster than no gi schools. That should tell you about the market.

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It really is a pretty simple and clear question. The argument was made that the market for gi is greater than no-gi. Ergo, if you are no-gi, are you hurting yourself. If the answer is no, then there is no reason not to move to no-gi. Thanks to B for answering.

I still think there's an image problem of coming out with that video but having the 9/3 ratio. Smells hypocritical. What you're suggesting makes Popovitch sound like a sell out. He belives one thing but money gets him another. I don't think that's the way you want to paint him.

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Originally Posted by Aiseop

It really is a pretty simple and clear question. The argument was made that the market for gi is greater than no-gi. Ergo, if you are no-gi, are you hurting yourself. If the answer is no, then there is no reason not to move to no-gi. Thanks to B for answering.

I still think there's an image problem of coming out with that video but having the 9/3 ratio. Smells hypocritical. What you're suggesting makes Popovitch sound like a sell out. He belives one thing but money gets him another. I don't think that's the way you want to paint him.

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If you are purely no gi and not a MMA gym, I'd be willing to wager you're going to have hard time unless you are a 10th planet affiliate. I'd be very impressed if you could name 10 no gi jiu jitsu gyms that aren't 10th planet gyms or MMA gyms.

If you are no-gi, are you hurting yourself? The answer is no for some guys because they are phenomenal instructors and wise business men. But that's not counting how many 10th Planet schools have gone under or have jobs on the side to keep the business running. That's WITH brand recognition. While it's not 100% true that going no gi will hurt you, it's not 100% certain that going no gi will help you either. With the numbers the way they are, I would lean toward the idea that Popovitch would lose students and not necessarily gain new ones until the popularity of no gi matches the popularity of gi JJ. Some guys just love the gi. Keenan loves the gi. I practically guarantee if Atos became no gi only, he'd leave.

After visiting a few schools and seeing how the gi classes are packed and the no gi classes are bare, sometimes completely empty......I gotta say, Pablo isn't being a hypocrite. He's being a smart business man. Being a smart business man doesn't make you a sell out. It makes you a smart business man. He doesn't "believe in no gi." He prefers no gi. You can prefer one over the other while still teaching one more than the other. If I'm a chef, and I love sea urchin and foie gras, but most of my customers prefer beef, I'm going to have more beef options than anything. That's just smart business.

The numbers don't lie. No gi is gaining momentum, but the gi is still the larger market.

If I own a car dealership, and build my business around car sales, but I begin selling motorcycles, and I prefer motorcycles, why would I change my whole business to only motorcycles if I've already established my business as a car dealership? Harleys are more fun. Kia's are boring. But if you're selling more Kia's than Harleys.......

In Pablo's case, I'm positive that if he had more attendance for no gi, he would change it around, just like Empire did. Not enough guys were coming to gi judo. So the schedule was adjusted to cater to the demand.

I hope I'm not crossing the line like I speak for Herzog, but from our conversations, I know he loves his judo. He didn't pour his life into it for nothing. But he understood his student's needs/wants. People just weren't attending gi judo classes often enough, but the no gi JJ kept swelling. So things changed. And Coach ain't no sell out. But he is a damn smart business man.

Pablo didn't say in the interview that he hates the gi. He prefers no gi. Why change your business model to force students into your preference? That's not hypocritical. It's not selling out. It's simply smart business.

I disagree with Pablo.

Marcelo's most popular matches and rolls are almost always in the gi. Nogi is generally too swampy slow for the masses ;-)

I think the point of the video is that he likes competing No Gi and not Gi. Not that he wants to completely throw away the gi

This turned into a hate the gi free for all for some reason, instead of paying attention to what Popovitch said.

On that: I disagree with unequivocal claims, especially for claiming something through solely subjective means as "boredom." You have both exciting gi and nogi matches. This weekend at the NY Pro, both Lo/Keenan and the Miyao/Grippo matches were fucking awesome to watch. Let's not forget the Rafa/Clark Metamoris match either. On the other hand, you can claim the Lister/Barnett match was boring until the very end, as it was NOT a dynamic match, with one guy always on the bottom. ON the other hand, part 2, the Tonon/Dale match, with its constant movement and wicked ending was exciting to watch. It's just intellectually lazy to make unequivocal statements when so much of it is subjective and so many examples can be shown that disagrees with the premise.