Rener Gracie speaks on Eddie Bravo

To Mr Landry's point, the story of the bouncer and RNC to me perfectly illustrates my argument and even the principle difference between the Helio-descendant way of thinking and 10P. The Helio, or his sons answer to the same situation, "Why isn't the technique working?" (the RNC on the massive bouncer) would be "The move was not done at the right time" they would go on to explain that every technique, even the RNC has loopholes to be exploited and that a opponent, especially larger and stronger would need to be sufficiently exhausted before a smaller person (like Eddie) has a chance of completing the submission. The 10P answer to the situation is, do reps over and over to develops strength until your "squeeze" is sufficient to complete the move on the desired opponent. If Helio or his direct lineage were to be in the same situation, it's unlikely they would have tried to RNC a fully rested, massive opponent who EXPECTS the RNC. GJJ practicioner's would opt to have the bouncer attempt to beat or submit them, at the point of exhaustion, possibly apply a submission or escape, 10P does not follow that same old-school philosophy. It's also unfair to liken the bouncer-RNC story to a woman's self defense. No woman is going to hop on the back of a massive bouncer and try to apply a submission the assailant KNOWS is coming. A woman's self defense system needs to be based on ability to survive and escape without exhausting, not on building the required attributes to mount an offensive.

On Chris Herzogs point (big fan BTW, keep up the awesome work), I think this also illustrates the difference between the 10P mindset and the Gracie mindset. Of course Rickson is highly focused on conditioning, he was a professional fighter with a name to protect. Going against skilled athletes, who are familiar with your fight strategy and have probably cross trained themselves, physical conditioning is imperative! But his fathers goal was to empower the weak and did not emphasize physical conditioning just as the 3rd generation brothers do not. The reason they don't is that being in peak shape is not a requirement to execute the basics--for the purpose of self defense. Which can simply mean, not going to the hospital after a streetfight, or being able to survive and escape. Physical conditioning, to me atleast, is a facet of competition. Many other martial arts require conditioning, especially striking to be effective, but the beauty of Jiu Jitsu is that a fat, out of shape older guy can DRAMATICALLY increase their fighting potential by learning the basics. Will he get smoked at a Grappler's Quest? Absolutely. But if he is attacked by some asshole, even a fat lard can survive and escape knowing just the basics with no physical conditioning.

So maybe Rener should have said something such as "I don't know much about 10th Planet, but I know that the Jiu Jitsu I teach is focused on survival, train what appeals to you"

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Originally Posted by Lindsey Loewen

On Chris Herzogs point (big fan BTW, keep up the awesome work), I think this also illustrates the difference between the 10P mindset and the Gracie mindset. Of course Rickson is highly focused on conditioning, he was a professional fighter with a name to protect. Going against skilled athletes, who are familiar with your fight strategy and have probably cross trained themselves, physical conditioning is imperative! But his fathers goal was to empower the weak and did not emphasize physical conditioning just as the 3rd generation brothers do not. The reason they don't is that being in peak shape is not a requirement to execute the basics--for the purpose of self defense. Which can simply mean, not going to the hospital after a streetfight, or being able to survive and escape. Physical conditioning, to me atleast, is a facet of competition. Many other martial arts require conditioning, especially striking to be effective, but the beauty of Jiu Jitsu is that a fat, out of shape older guy can DRAMATICALLY increase their fighting potential by learning the basics. Will he get smoked at a Grappler's Quest? Absolutely. But if he is attacked by some asshole, even a fat lard can survive and escape knowing just the basics with no physical conditioning.

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No he cant a stronger opponent in better shape is going to pull out of a fat mans weak over hook, he is not going to retain guard, and he sure as hell isnt going to have the athleticism to take someone down.. The fat man is going to gas out and not perform his tech well....there is no excuse for not being in shape....that in itself is the Gracie marketing strategy "its so easy a caveman can do it". You are falling for it....

Why would someone want to "retain guard" in a self defense situation? Trying to latch onto a overhook against a resistant opponent isn't recommended for GJJA's advanced students, much less in their Combatives course. It doesn't make sense to assume every adult bully, drunk attacker or even robber is a trained MMA fighter, with reflexive knowledge on sprawling, striking combos and passing the guard. Let's be honest, the early Gracie's paled in comparison to today's Grapplers and still were able to be successful against untrained fighters. The vast majority of people, everywhere have no fighting training at all.

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Originally Posted by Lindsey Loewen

Why would someone want to "retain guard" in a self defense situation? Trying to latch onto a overhook against a resistant opponent isn't recommended for GJJA's advanced students, much less in their Combatives course. It doesn't make sense to assume every adult bully, drunk attacker or even robber is a trained MMA fighter, with reflexive knowledge on sprawling, striking combos and passing the guard. Let's be honest, the early Gracie's paled in comparison to today's Grapplers and still were able to be successful against untrained fighters. The vast majority of people, everywhere have no fighting training at all.

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Idk, ask Royce why he retained guard against Dan Severn for so long. That's besides the point, you cant tell whats going to happen in a self defense situation, you may want to retain guard you may want to do something else. Point is that you will not be able to perform anything most effectively if u are a weak fatty period. You are totally playing into these guys hands....

That "latch onto the bad guy and hold them down" mentality is precisely the reason BJJ has such a bad rap in the self-defense community, people see practicioner's using strength and attributes to try and hold someone in a bottom-position and dismiss the art entirely.

Royce didn't have a choice, there was nothing to "retain", Severn wanted to be right were he was. Of course being out of shape is bad for fighting, but IF your fat, lazy and out of shape you have a better chane with basic Jiu Jitsu move than with an explosive technique. Having your hands in the right place, filling space with legs and using large muscles instead of smaller muscles are principles behind all of the Combatives moves, check them out for yourself. It's designed to require little.

I recieved my first Blue belt under Rener Gracie a few years back and greatly appreciate all the knowledge and found him to be a very nice person, I also received a Blue Belt from Mr. Sean Bollinger - a 10th Planet Blackbelt and inventor of the double bagger and one of my favorite moves ever -the Bollinger Necktie, Sean is also an extremly nice person and very down to earth. I think it helps me Immensely to know the original techniques as taught by the Gracies, as I travel down my 10th planet path. It almost for a lack of better terminology seems like Anti-Jiu-Jitsu -Jiu-Jitsu, so many of the techniques in the 10th planet system work perfectly when standard Jui-Jitsu passes, sweeps, defenses and escapes are attempted. It's Jiu-Jitsu Evolved. Mix in a little Marcello Garcia knowledge to use against the smart guys that are down with the system and you can wreck house. I will also add that the 10th Planet certification process I went through by e-mailing Eddie Videos to review was harder than any of my other Belts. Eddie is meticulous and demands perfection which just made it that much sweeter when I finally passed. I should probably add a "Thanks!" for the patience to Eddie for spending all that time reviewing my techniques.

I've rolled with Dan Severn, what he lacks in knowledge he makes up for in Crazy Strength. I'm very strong and felt like a ragdoll against Severn.