Double slit experiment.. what does this mean for reality?

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Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu

This was one of those posts where I was just curious to see peoples opinions and theories.. I like to see the world through other peoples eyes. But in no way were the questions asked to make people defend what they believe or force anyone to feel obligated to justify their beliefs by backing up all they assume with scientific facts. lol. Though I do appreciate people who base their beliefs on their own personal research rather than what they are told to believe.. I just dont want this turning into another ego based Pseudo-religious/scientific argument. And no this isnt geared toward Tom or Bobby.. I just saw the comments and wanted to clarify before anyone else felt like they needed to do tons of research before stating their opinion in fear they would be expected to provide answers to all they believe. Obviously you two are educated enough in your beliefs that you most likely compare with me in the fact that you love discussions like this. After all, if we never challenge each other, we will never learn anything new. So Just wanted to open the door for anyone else who had some personal opinions that perhaps dont line up with any mainstream beliefs. Just curious to see some other points of view.. Now.. continue with all the great convos/responses :P

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Yeah, you're right. I'm kind of being a dick. Sorry.

I always believed that the universe is infinite, thus creating infinite possible outcomes, therefore anything you can imagine is happening at that moment somewhere. I guess that would mean, it makes sense to me that we view our own consciousness from the perspective of time, even though somewhere our past is still happening right now. Anyone have thoughts on time travel? I heard that time is not just linear but also spirals. I would also like to see a thread started on us unlocking the ability to become immortal so we can travel to other possible goldilocks planets and inhabit them, since eventually the our sun will die out and go supernova/red giant/blackhole/Neutron star and vaporize our solar system. It would be awesome if we could travel not only at the speed of light but many times faster.

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Originally Posted by Bryan Brown

Anyone have thoughts on time travel?

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I havent really done as much research on the subject as most people.. But according to reality as i have chosen to interpret it.. I dont know if i think past/future time travel is possible. (though theoretically im sure it is).. But i do believe perhaps the "freezing" of time may be possible. Though i have no scientists or studies to
support any of this.. I kind of see it like this.. If i walk across an entire football field.. it would take me roughly 40 seconds.. If i run across the same distance.. it may take me 14 seconds.. i drive, 5 seconds.. fly in a jet.. 1 second.. travel at the speed of light.. a fraction of a second.. but i think with enough energy.. we would eventually be able to travel so fast that it would take us no time to travel the field.. therefor meaning we could make it around the world in the same amount of time (or no time i guess).. which would mean we would be able to travel any distance in the universe instantaneously.

As for a way to actually get that fast.. I dont believe we ever will.. but i think theoretically its possible. For instance If i take a train as long as the equator and run it around the planet at 500 mph. (yeah.. my train has some rocket engines :P) and make it to where the front of the train is touching the back of itself.. Then on top of that train have another track with another train on top of it traveling an additional 500 mph.. making the top trains total speed 1000 mph.. then continue with this process indefinitely.. we would eventually reach speeds far past the speed of light. (I use the train explanation as an example.. I would assume in real life our best option would be electromagnetic rails and the same concept).. But like i said.. it would only be theoretical since both the potential speed and the amount of intervals in 1 second are both indefinite.. but you get the idea. and now.. Im curious to see some other peoples opinions on the subject. Ive seen some good documentaries on it.. but not enough to consider myself educated on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Tom Van

The output is which slit the photon went through, the pattern is where they end up. They are two different things. The "observer" can be an electron. It does not have to be conscious. That is not my opinion. That is the science. Check "Observer Effect" on Wikipedia, and you will see "An observer is anything that causes wavefunction collapse, it could be anything really; a rock, human, particle, etc. It is important to note that an observer has nothing at all to do with a human consciousness."

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Seriously, how do we know that anything can be an observer by miraculously taking consciousness out of the equation? a paradoxical flaw. Who has ever measured anything without consciousness? Hard and scientifically please.

Oh, and angular momentum that materializes through all forces is completely irrelevant. I mean what in physics orbits via forces?

And yes, they edited the shit fucked. But the quantum edition is better and research on current theories is better than that. But still all guys smarter than me.

All speculation, but if you believe that consciousness is intertwined with the fundamental fabric of what the fuck ever, then why did it spontaneously generate and evolve towards higher consciousness?

All I'm sayin, is the one thing you know, is ya never know.

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Originally Posted by Tom Van

Yeah, you're right. I'm kind of being a dick. Sorry.

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haha.. not at all. I just know that everytime conversations involving reality are discussed.. someone always has to come in and inform everyone of how idiotic they are because they dont agree with the individuals assumptions theyve made based on information theyve gathered throughout their own unique path in life. I figure everyone who has an opinion.. has one because they believe it to be true based on all the facts theyve been given to date. I just think a lot of time people tend to forget.. these facts are different for everyone because of our unique paths weve walked.. so we cant expect everyone else to just ignore all of the interpretations theyve made in there life because we know a different set of facts they may have never heard of.. or perhaps they are basing these opinions on things that we havent had the opportunity to learn about yet. Like I said.. i think you and bobby handle yourselves fine.. you both know why you believe what you believe, and are confident/open minded enough that you are willing to lay your supportive reasons behind each theory. If the world all believed the same things.. itd be a very boring/misinformed planet. "As iron sharpens iron so a man sharpens a man".. We need differences in opinion to allow ourselves room to grow.

^ Me and you are down brah.

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Originally Posted by Tom Van

...New Age metaphysics sprinkled with enough scientific jargon to make it sound credible crap, ...

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I blame Oprah. :P

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

Seriously, how do we know that anything can be an observer by miraculously taking consciousness out of the equation? a paradoxical flaw. Who has ever measured anything without consciousness? Hard and scientifically please.

Oh, and angular momentum that materializes through all forces is completely irrelevant. I mean what in physics orbits via forces?

And yes, they edited the shit fucked. But the quantum edition is better and research on current theories is better than that. But still all guys smarter than me.

All speculation, but if you believe that consciousness is intertwined with the fundamental fabric of what the fuck ever, then why did it spontaneously generate and evolve towards higher consciousness?

All I'm sayin, is the one thing you know, is ya never know.

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Alright, bobby. I get what you are saying. You believe that consciousness and the fabric of the universe are somehow interconnected. You are entitled to that opinion. It sounded to me like the point where the physics in your opinion stopped and the metaphysics started was muddled, and I took unnecessary offense to that. Honestly, because there are a lot of people out there do that intentionally to mislead people. That was clearly not your intention, so I apologize for jumping on it. I was actually guilty of the same thing when I said the universe is not conscious. What I should have said is that the physics does not require the universe to be conscious, and left it at that. That much is uncontroversial.

As far as why consciousness spontaneously generated, you are absolutely correct, no one seems to know that right now. However, I personally do not see why one should make the jump from uncertainty about the origins of something, to a complex belief about it being intertwined with the universe. There just does not seem to be evidence to support that, at this time.

And, as for the second part - why it evolved towards a higher consciousness - no one knows that for sure either. However, there are many examples in nature, where quite simple mathematical equations can produce extremely complex systems. For example, the way the petals on a flower always spiral up the stem in the famous "fibonacci sequence". Looking at the physics, one will see that this pattern is simply the one that results in the lowest potential energy for the system, and is therefore the most efficient and likely solution to the problem.

One great example, that you are probably already aware of, is the Mandelbrot set. This is a relatively simple mathematical formula that results in infinitely complex patterns. Many of those results are seen in throughout nature.

So, no one knows why, but it would seem that these complex systems (consciousness included) can arise simply as a result of the basic physical laws of our universe. Set up some initial conditions, and give it enough time, and the result is inevitable. Could there be some more complex answer? Yes, but in physics the simplest model is typically seen as the most useful. As the famous mathematician Pierre-Simon Laplace reportedly replied to Napoleon when asked why he had not mentioned God in his book on astronomy: "I had no need of that hypothesis."

I am open to changing my mind if more evidence comes out.

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Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu

i think with enough energy.. we would eventually be able to travel so fast that it would take us no time to travel the field.. therefor meaning we could make it around the world in the same amount of time (or no time i guess).. which would mean we would be able to travel any distance in the universe instantaneously.

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It's been a few years since I finished my A-level physics where we covered special relativity, but I remember that as a particle or object's velocity increases, so does it's mass (and time slows down). This means that as the particle approached the speed of light, more energy would be needed due to the increase in mass, which increases exponentially and asymptotes at the speed of light. My interpretation of this is that no matter how much energy you give the particle, its increase in mass will prevent it's velocity reaching or exceeding the speed of light. It also works the other way - a photon only has mass when travelling at the speed of light. Try and slow it down, and its mass shrinks down to zero.

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Originally Posted by Tom Van

So, no one knows why, but it would seem that these complex systems (consciousness included) can arise simply as a result of the basic physical laws of our universe. Set up some initial conditions, and give it enough time, and the result is inevitable. Could there be some more complex answer? Yes, but in physics the simplest model is typically seen as the most useful. As the famous mathematician Pierre-Simon Laplace reportedly replied to Napoleon when asked why he had not mentioned God in his book on astronomy: "I had no need of that hypothesis.".

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Whenever I read or hear about things such as the Large Hadron Collider searching for the next particle, it always makes me think that eventually we will discover that matter and energy (which are the same) are built of the same single building block in one of two states: on or off. All other particles are simply different combinations of these basic building blocks. A binary universe.