Indeed. Fascinating.
Printable View
Indeed. Fascinating.
Do I really need more? I became convinced by solar observation. I tried very hard to understand f.e. model and imagine what I would observe in that world. It just didn't match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanfit
Then my wife and I sat down with a couple golfballs and tried to understand the phases of the moon on a round earth. At first I was like "wtf this is bullshit" but then it sort of became clear how it works, and I can now understand why the moon is shadowed the way it is, all month long. That helped a lot.
It just explains things the best of any model I've heard. All the things.
Is NASA lying about the moon? Of course. But does that mean every telescope image you've ever seen is fake? No.
Do I believe NASA has probes that go out to those planets and a rover on Mars? I'm very skeptical... especially about the rover on mars.
But telescopes are real, and if you get a big enough one you can see the other planets. They are round too. And they have observable orbits around the sun.
That's one of the things that the heliocentric model helps us understand, why the planets appear where they appear.
You want to know my reasons for spherical thinking? Buy a book on Astronomy.
It doesn't sound like you do. You made that pretty clear. I however do. I would love to hear your experiments and results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
If you study the way planets were tracked by astronomers before heliocentric, it was very hard for them. They just didn't understand why a planet would move slowly across the sky and then suddenly switch directions. They called them "wandering stars" and it just didnt make sense, even on a round earth.
But then they put the sun in the center and said "all the planets orbit the sun" and suddenly you could say "ok so if the earth is here in it's orbit, and jupiter is there, then i should see jupiter if I look right .." and there it is, right where it should be, based on heliocentric.
You can easily predict the positions of the planets in a heliocentric model and it all makes intuitive sense. It explains all the things. So it's most likely correct. It's the best model we have.
My experiments? The only round earth experiments i've done are thought experiments and basic personal observation. I've told you most of them. Shrug.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanfit
It's the model that explains things far better than any other model. I don't need to run more experiments, I'm good. On to the next thing.
Sorry, same integrity that lets me admit I'm wrong keeps me from saying I agree if I'm not sure.
Being not sure is a very healthy place to be. "I don't know" is something we should all say more often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanfit
Ok… I just did the math from Chicago to Warren Dunes State Park in Michigan across the lake. Everyone can do this for themselves. The distance between the two is 52 miles. If you use the earth curvature calculator at https://dizzib.github.io and put the eye height at 6 feet with the distance at 52 miles then the target hidden height would be 1,601 feet. This means if the earth were a ball then anything below 1,601 feet would be hidden below the curve of the earth.
The Willis Tower in Chicago is 1,450 feet tall. It isn’t on the shore line so lets say its apparent height relative to the shore is 1,500 feet. If the earth were convexly curved then the top of the Willis Tower would be 101 feet below the curve at a distance of 52 miles from Warren Dunes State Park in Michigan. The Willis Tower in Chicago, as well as the entire skyline, is indeed visible from Warren Dunes State Park proving that the earth is not convexly curved at 8 inches per mile squared.
<span style="font-kerning: none">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAWAHAEvAzc
Calculator here:
https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve...&unit=imperial
Jason you forgot to include the height of the park above lake level... in your haste to be right, you didn't think of that.
From google. "Warren Dunes State Park. Warren Dunes has three miles of shoreline, six miles of hiking trails and is open year-round. It also has a dune formation that rises 260 feet above the lake with spectacular views and 1,952 acres of recreational opportunity."
So you are not 6' in elevation, you are 266' of elevation.. now let's calculate.
https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve...&unit=imperial
Ok… if the elevation for the observer in the video were 260 feet then only 694 feet would be visible. Willis Tower is approx. 1,500 feet above the shoreline minus 694 ft. would leave only 800 ft visible. More than 800 ft of the tower is visible, not to mention the much smaller buildings along the shoreline that are visible which should not be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
Well since i have no idea where that video came from I can't really comment specifically about the video. It could be CGI for all I know.
Why don't you go to the park and take some pictures for us from the beach at lake level (or 6' above). Go ahead and post the pics here for all to see.
I'm nowhere near Lake Michigan. That was the point of Rob Skiba flying there for himself to do the experiment himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
My calculation says 684, minus the 50 feet we are allowing for buildings in Chicago to be above lake level.
That leaves 634' invisible.
There are 32 buildings that should be visible, according to this:
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li...ngs_in_Chicago
And don't forget this is a 50' guess. Perhaps the foundations of Chicago skyscrapers are higher?
In the video there are building that should be too short to be seen if the earth were a ball, yet, they can be seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAWAHAEvAzc
Also please don't forget about refraction, which was covered earlier.
You argument is getting mighty thin... yet you will not relent. You are stubborn, that's for sure. Good in some things, like Jiu Jitsu, not so good for knowing things though.
Rob Skiba's video proved that it was not a mirage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
Not stubborn. I thought you said earlier that Chicago cannot be seen from Michigan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
I already addressed the video. It's just some random youtube video, we know nothing about it. I can show you youtube videos of people walking on the moon. Wanna see?
flat earth is contradicted by heaps upon heaps of direct observation. The fact that you're still arguing in the face of all the inconsistencies that "you dont know everything about" is a little stunning to me. Almost as stunning as the fact that I've chosen to engage with you this long about it.
It depends on where you are in Michigan, and how high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Mallory
if you are 40 miles from Chicago, swimming in the water with your eye just at the waterline, then you cannot see Chicago. The waterline will obscure it completely because of curvature.
Ok Craig... thank you for your time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
He shot video of Chicago from 40 miles away at water level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
allegedly. maybe he works for nasa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Mallory
maybe he was actually 20 miles away.
You believe him because you want to.
Maybe you're right. Maybe he is only 20 miles away and he is fooling everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
That's what i mean when i say his video is not compelling. He might be full of shit. I'm relying on him both being honest and knowing what he's doing in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Mallory
But I can look at the sun, and without youtube, determine that the way the length of the day, size of the sun, seasons, phases of the moon, all work exactly as predicted by a round earth model.
Dude... lets continue this but right now I'm going to watch the ufc... peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
I heard that! The west coast trials have been on here all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Mallory
Geo up soon!
Jump on that Fox News JJ I know you want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by brianspinaltap
I was watching the blood moon in the backyard with my mom and I was seeing the moon as I normally see it as if it was really far away and then she told me that it looks like it's right there and then it hit me that it really did look like it was right there and not far away, illusions and perspective are real and things can seem one way when they aren't that at all.
Are you a real black belt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Schmidt
You are ignoring the links that Craig posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Mallory
http://www.abc57.com/story/31830937/...ichigan-mirage
https://www.quora.com/Chicago-is-59-...can-it-be-seen
After watching a few DIY Rocket videos, it seems that the curvature and spherical shape of the earth becomes apparent at about 100,000 ft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY7W3EMfrgc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGyRtL_kO28&t=205s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDoh8zQDT38
Rob Akiba proved the the Chicago skyline from Michigan is not a superior mirage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
Without a wide angle lens the earth is flat at 120000 feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by NameLikeNoOther
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQITXbcz2hg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Q-FuXJSTQQuote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
So I took a little day trip over to empire beach (next to sleeping bear dunes) on the west coast of Michigan. It's flat. I can see the sand of the beach of north manitou from empire beach it should be about 42 ft. under the horizon. That is concrete fact that the math they gave us is wrong. I also took a level and lined up from manitou all the way to the opposite shore about 40 mi away from the island... You guessed it, flat and level the whole way accross. There should be a curve of almost 1000 ft!!! Argument over for me folks. Just wow. I've now seen proof in real life.
AWESOME ! Did you take pictures or video ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanfit
It's not too awful far away, I could go snap a few pics this weekend! Hopefully good sunset too!!!
I started as a critic myself. The best thing you can do is educate yourself; Then use your own facts and senses to make your own determination. Seek knowledge for yourself! Don't just believe something because someone in power told you its truth.
You gonna take the Red pill or the Blue one?