Ya the founding principles were developed with surviving a street fight, and being outweighed and not as strong. The sports (MMA & BJJ) isn't about surviving.Quote:
Originally Posted by GorlockMacGregor
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Ya the founding principles were developed with surviving a street fight, and being outweighed and not as strong. The sports (MMA & BJJ) isn't about surviving.Quote:
Originally Posted by GorlockMacGregor
Time for me to put my 2 cents here. I've wrestled almost my whole life, also I have a brown belt in judo and a blue belt in 10th planet jj. I spent the last 4 years of my life working skills other than wrestling to help my game. I have never takedown someone and "hugged" them for the whole round. The fact that you say F*** wrestling means you have failed to learn the skill. If i had said that about judo when i started, i would have never won a state title in it. The same goes for jj, I could do what your doing complain about it get submitted or train and tap a black belt (that won the Pan Ams 3x) in my last tournament. My advice to you guys find a way to win against everyone not a reason to lose to them.
I appreciate your 2c Scott, and I liked your win against the black belt, I think I saw the heel hook you got.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Yockel
But you don't see my point but you are going in the right direction. I still stay fuck wrestling, but your wrong, I do know wrestling.
This is what I was trying to really get at. I'll elaborate some more. Jiu Jitsu players are not taking it personal that most, not you Scott, but most wrestlers will hug after a take down and be suffice with a draw or winning by being on top. I think if more took it personal they would find better ways to beat the hugging wrestlers (not your type of wrestler).Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Yockel
I'm not complaining about wrestlers so much as I am complaining about seeing jiu jitsu players losing to wrestling. And I do train, A lot.
I realize your not speak towards me. You have to realize more wrestlers are learning jj and at high levels( Ben Asken and John Hendricks). Why do you need to take personal. You Lost to someone that was better that day. It should be a wake up call to improve and grow.
No bro, you don't get it. It's not about all wrestlers. let me repeat. This is about lots of jiu jitsu guys losing because of this. I am trying to surface a main cause of it in my opinion. I started taking the steps of beating a great wrestler the first time I lost to won in my first tournament in the beginners bracket.
I'll elaborate some more. Jiu Jitsu players are not taking it personal that most wrestlers will hug after a take down and be suffice with a draw or winning by being on top. I think if more took it personal they would find better ways to beat the hugging wrestlers (not your type of wrestler).
AJ said that it took Royce submit Severn in 15 mins and 29 secs... Which is BESIDES the point remember?? I said no rules and nooo time limit cuz thats how life rolls and Severn was about ninety muscled pounds overweighing Royce so your argument about that is rather weak, by the way i didnt say i dislike wrestling either in fact i like it quit a bit and my Grandpa was a Greco-Roman wrestler lol
I'm a TKD/JCVD striker who is learning to incorporate wrestling, 10th planet JJ, and Judo!!!!
You're right good sir. Don't get me wrong though, wrestlers doing a takedown, then stalling for the rest of the round sucks =(, but that's really just a motivator to grow and learn by making my escapes better, and making my butterfly guard solid.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobABOVE
I don't see how you can compare both sports on the level some of you guys are comparing them. Like the guy that said he watched a wrestling match and the guy was never in trouble but still lost.. wrestling is about control not submissions. You can't really compare two grappling styles on a "sports" level.. and say something like that because they don't share the same rules or end goal. A rough analogy would be comparing football and rugby or something like that.
And the guy that said wrestlers are really confident especially if they won a state title... of course they are... man if I won a state title in any sport especially over multiple years I'd be extremely confident. But it also has to do with age.. if they won a state title but they're 45 and haven't done anything since then they need to chill out. But if they're 18 etc.. then hell more power to them.
If you want to be a better grappler you need to embrace all areas and styles... and if you were to take a guy that wrestled all his life and a guy that did jujitsu and put them in a submission only match of course the jujitsu guy would win and vice versa.. the wrestler/jujitsu guy/girl has never in his life trained for such a match.. thats why I see discussions like this as very pointless. If they want to be competitive in a submission grappling match then they need to know both and more.
edit: just saw your last comment.. in beginners matches of course people are going to "stall" more.. its annoying I agree.. but they don't know enough to be as comfortable as someone doing advanced. If they can take you down and are able to hold you, there is a large possibility they will because that is their comfort zone.. I bet 50% of the people that do that aren't even wrestlers.. just guys/girls that don't have enough experience and are unsure of where to go next.
I hold the lame ass point system in many grappling comps personal. The wrestler just manipulated them to beat me. And I signed up for it sooo... I like mma better.
But really, If a guy in my weight class is strong and skilled enough to hold me down for 5 minutes and win I take it personal against myself, which I think is your point. For me the solution to losses in the past would be flexibility and cardio. I knew the tech and tried to execute it but he was so tight I couldnt create the space needed because I wasnt flexible enough to pull it off. Or I was too damn tired and it was my 5th match and for some reason he got two by's... fuckit. Im workin on it.