I've been grabbing with thumb lately after seeing a Lister video about it but I used to just do a no thumb grip (flipper grip?)
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I've been grabbing with thumb lately after seeing a Lister video about it but I used to just do a no thumb grip (flipper grip?)
I don't like using the thumb. I find that the bigger, wider feet I don't have as good a grip on, but the smaller feet its superior the the "flipper grip" as you call it (no thumbs). So this is why is prefer the no thumbs grip all the time, it's more consistent, and works better on the folks I need it most on (big strong legs and feet). Zog? You have any wisdom here on the toe hold grip?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
I prefer the no thumb grip myself, it just feels better. I have bad wrists, any time I separate my thumb from my fingers while gripping its much weaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Ray
I apply both ways as well. I like to use the thumb when I do a rolling toe hold or electric toe hold I feel it gives me a little more control but if I am in twister side or russian cowboy where I scoop the foot more I dont mind no thumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Ray
Scott R, and Scott Ray. Hmm. Scott R, I would love if you could put your full last name. It's confusing for me, I read your post and was like "I don't remember posting this". Lol. If its confusing for me I'm sure it is really confusing for the non-Scott's.
Lol. I saw a lot of great leg locks this past weekend. Oddly enough not a single person went after my feet
I use no thumbs on the toe hold. It's easier to roll my wrists forward and create that sprained ankle motion that way. Same grip as a kimura, in my opinion.
I've been told my entire Jiu Jitsu "career" not to use the thumb on the Kimura but I do everytime. Is there a reason not to? Seems more secure to me to grab that wristQuote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
There is a HUGE reason to use it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
I get it Zog. You have a huge hog. JeezQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I never use thumbs on the hand that's gripping your own wrist.. Depending on his defense, the angle of his resistance pressure, and other factors, i may take the thumb off on the wrist control hand. For the same reason Bmac is saying, throttling that wrist further. Always use the thumb on the wrist control hand in the beginning. Must. I use the kimura alot. There's more to the kimura than the sub, there's sweeps, back takes, armbars, etc.. I use the kimura grip for a back take very often.. Having the thumb on the wrist control hand is a must if you wanna use the kimura grip for positional changes..Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
I def don't grip my own wrist but I do grip theirs. Ok so I'm not wrong for grabbing their wrist.
I've started grabbing the hand instead of the wrist when I initially lock up the kimura, it makes breaking the grip in gi much easier.
Gray! Where ya been, dude? I missed your musk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray
I'm just a lowly blue belt, but my opinion is you are doing perfectly correct keeping the thumb grip around their wrist. I would also say that many times do I feel like the no thumbs style works better. Each has their place..Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
But...on the topic of the toe-hold, I think gripping the foot using thumbs is less effective than no thumbs style flipper grip.. I'm glad to see other leg-lockers on here agree. :)
I've been trying to catch up on my drinking lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
The biggest leglock advice I have, is never leglock a dude with one leg. I went for a toe hold, folded his toes to his ankle, and he very calmly pulled my inside triangle around his nub and heelhooked me to death. Come to find out that the doctors removed most of the ligaments from his remaining ankle so it can't be submitted.
Was this in a tournament? Because I'd like to see that footage :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray
Haha that's awesome. Maybe not for you but def for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray
I'm thinking of getting metal legs. It's a risky operation but it'll be worth it.
Yeah, the video is super grainy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRlX...e_gdata_player
(Stupid phone won't let me paste the embed)
I have two questions:
1.) Brent where could someone find this top rock video you mentioned?
2.) Coach Herzog, do you have any good videos on how to counter when your opponent just limp legs out of all of your attacks?
Every one of my videos on leg lock positioning has the solution. Hug the knee! If you hug it, they won't be limping out!Quote:
Originally Posted by jeron
Haha maybe my references are too dated. I seem to remember some cocky douche who was convinced he could "limp leg out" of any of your leg attacks. If I remember correctly after trying to reason with the guy you were eventually obliged to break his shit off in an ankle lock. That story always makes me smile when I watch your leg lock videos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
Yes that is true :)
http://www.rdojo.com/toprock.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by jeron
A lot of the comp footage in this is from the local tournaments down here. Even spotted bobby rivers and myself a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
Thanks guys
Thats actually pretty coolQuote:
Originally Posted by sean applegate
Pretty cool concept of paying what you think its worth. Plus it has some legit info which im just isnt new but regardless its stepped up my game.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeron
Anyone watch the BJJ Kumite? Sean Roberts tap'd a lot of really really good brown belts with this calf slicer in just a few seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX60dIUVR4c
Also does anyone have a video of the rolling calf slicer counter to the lockdown?
I respect Reilly... Trained with him, learned alot from him... BUT.. he doesn't understand a capoeira pass.. Just saying.
After that stuff was released, Matt Skaff was down here catching everybody with that. Everybody is pretty much hip to it now, but it's a super legit finish. Better wear a cup, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeron
Are you basing that off of the trailer footage? Because it seems like he is doing it that way to set up the foot lock series, not because he doesn't understand the pass. Something to think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Ray
I love Bodycomb. We picked up a phrase from one of his DVDs that has helped me a lot. He says to be "fast and scary" with your leg lock game. Very cool way to look at it. When combined with Herzog's control positions and some dedicated drilling, one can become very, very dangerous with foot locks in a matter of a few months.
Huh? He doesn't show to just go for that capoeira pass in this video series that's true but he shows the couple leg locks you can get. Then if the guy on bottom reacts to the capoeira by turning into you there's a smooth transition to 3/4 mount then what he calls vegan mount. Why do you say he doesn't understand the capoeira pass? Personal experience?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Ray
Yes, the person can turn into him because his HIP and shoulder are incorrect...
I also disagree with the "fast and scary". No offense, I love you to death.. ;) But I don't think a leg lock should be different than any other sub. We don't need to be fast and scary on other subs because they are control positions. Dead zones. Why is the philosophy different for leg locks? Why can't we use superior control and technique, instead of trying to snatch up footlocks "catch" style, with no control, hoping he doesn't roll out before I can damage his leg. The knot is a control position, a dead zone. Our philosophy on leg locks is the same with all subs.. Control position, control the dead zone, then take submission. This is 10p standard philosophy.
I don't think you read my post correctly. It says I want to combine "fast and scary" with Herzog's philosophies, which are heavily control based. Or maybe you aren't well studied on Herzog's thoughts on the subject. I should have clarified, I guess. But I assumed that since we are on the leg lock thread you knew what I was talking about when I wrote that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Ray
Regarding "fast and scary," I think it's a strong idea. We aren't only attacking the body. Fighting is as much psychological as physical; perhaps even more, one could argue. If I can cause you to panic and react poorly, I am at a great advantage moving forward. Or if I can put you out of position and force you to play from behind and expend energy, my chances of overcoming you are increased exponentially.
If you don't think a Marcelotine is fast and scary, you ain't doin it right. Look at Orchard play; he jumps on rolling Kimuras fast and scary. And he's my hero, so don't say anything bad about Orchard or I will do bad things to your family.
Playing fast and scary doesn't necessarily mean that one should attack with disregard for position or attack from a position of disadvantage. Attack quickly. Force a poor reaction from your opponent. Take advantage of his poor reaction, either with a kill, sweep or advancement of position. That sounds like a solid plan to me.
And regarding that Capoeira pass, I'm willing to bet Bodycomb does it well. He prob just prefers that inverted heel hook attack.
Ah. I did read your post wrong. You sir, are a genius! Fast and scary control. Hmm death..
Well it's working well for me. As soon as I back step I go for the legs. If they're being stubborn (not high percentage for me yet) I switch to the cap pass or 3/4 mount. I guess until I hit a point where guys are making me pay for an incorrect angle, I'll continue this game plan.
nice Andrew!
Keenan C show the heelhook he used in Metamoris 3 on Kevin Casey
http://youtu.be/iS387HjizKs
Went down to Decatur last night and ended up finally getting to try this calf slicer. Got a few taps on it and Brandon thought it was interesting so we decided to post something for the leglock master himself to review. Curious if youve seen this one before Coach Herzog:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Edw...ature=youtu.be