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But to add to the above, I have seen several ways to kick without moving the foot. What I have NOT seen, is anyone teaching it very often, or using it at a competitive level other than a "feeling" out kick. Anytime they want to do damage, I see a step, and a rotation (of sorts some of the euros, esp the big guys tend to rotate the foot fully and plant it flat on the step) of some sort, pretty much every, single, time.
What about Thai fighters? What do you see them doing?
Chai has a clip........on this very thread.....doing exactly what I was talking about.......
I see them throw it with no rotation only to feel out the other guy/slide that shin under the elbow. but even them, when they want to throw a fast kick, they rotate, just dont take the step first.
But lets say Buakaw.....I dont ever see him not step/point toes in the direction of a kick/rotate on his foot. I guess he could do it without these things, but its so rare, I dont really catch it.
Its a bit confusing to just talk about the rotating foot. There is a video of a guy with pretty slick Muay Thai spinning right round on the kicks while doing shadow. What Im saying is that in Muay Thai that kick is the exception not the rule.
The main Muay Thai kick I see used in the Muay Thai I have watched, and the Muay Thai I have been taught does not involve a full rotation of the body on a miss. If you miss a kick, or your doing shadow, the kick comes up, turns in and then comes back down to where you started. Thats the whole point of the kick. You dont have to leave your stance, so you can throw it in combinations, not just tag it on the end.
The kick involves throwing your leg straight up like your kicking a ball, and rolling your hip to turn the leg in at the point you want to strike. Ideally the foot stays fixed and you come up on your toes. If your inflexible, your foot will have to turn a bit as you kick higher. The kick comes up the side of your opponents body, and strikes at an angle. Some fighters step in a little with it, and some turn the foot a little, but the key thing is your not rolloing your hip right over, or spinning all the way around on a miss, and most importantly, your not leaving your stance. The kick can be thrown in the middle of a combination. It also telegraphs a lot less and is harder to check.
Its a bit like how Eddie describes twister side control. It seems weak when you start, but once you get it down you realise just how powerful it is. Yodsenkalai finishes guys with three or four of them to the body and upper arm. No shortage of power in the movement.
I am not talking about the rotation of the body, btw, but of the foot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Elliott
As to the foot not moving.....well I find it odd, every, single, high level professional Thai fighter I have seen hitting pads kicking, or fighting, rotates that foot........
The kick you describe here is the one most used, and guys rotate their foot into it, and most step when they throw it. No they dont roll the hip all the way over, but when they dont its because its used as a body kick to sneak under the rib. But the guy kicking still rotates his foot/rolls his hip, he just waits to transfer the force from upward to inward (if that makes sense).
What you just described, at every level I have ever seen it, the guy throwing the kick either moves his foot at the beginning of the kick, or he rotates his foot during the execution. The ONLY time I have seen it done where a guy doesnt rotate his foot is pad work where a guy is doubling/triple kicking and keeps the foot more stationary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxzmm...eature=related note, he is rotating the foot pretty much every single round kick. Now if what he is doing is what you mean, then I think we are having a communication break down. If you are talking about something else, post a vid of someone doing it.
But the whole foot movement thing, is where you did say I said something not true (with me saying that plant foot moves, pretty much any round kick that has bad intentions on it) when, from my experience, watching hundreds of Kickboxing (K1) and thai boxing matches that plant foot is going to move, even if its only a rotation.
I think you are confusing the spinning in a circle, as something I was endorsing. I have only ever seen it endorsed for beginners/shadow boxing tool. I was asking Frank as to the "switch" step he was talking about from a rear round kick. I could only guess he was talking about the movement of the plant foot in the direction of the kick to open the hips, and since I see almost every top level pro, doing just that ( a tiny step when kicking) when they mean to do damage.......well it seems that is the way its done.
Didnt bother to mention years of training and seeing it demonstrated this way, since we really cant plug past experiences into video, we can however all look at fight vids from the web.
Buakaw does, your right to a certain extent. But as I said, its not the rule. I think we are having a bit of a communication breakdown. This is not an easy way to figure it out. Let me get out of hospital and get a video camera and some proper internet and I will show you what Im talking about. Theres youtube vids I could look up too but I only have very limited bandwidth.
The video is titled "greatest Muay Thai fighter", which is stretching it a bit. Hes a great K1 fighter. He doesnt have any Lumpinee titles.